Ashamed to be an American

I never thought I would reach the point where I was ashamed of my country.

I was wrong.

I’ve loved America for most of my 58 years. I’ve fought for her, killed for her, bled for her and damn near died for her more than once.

I served my country even when I thought she was wrong because I felt it was my duty as an American to do so.

But I can no longer do so. America today has become what we always stood up against: A tyrant, a destroyer of freedom, an international murderer with no regard for human rights or life, no morality and no belief in the rule of law.

America now threatens the peace of the world far more than any terrorist group, any communist country or any tinhorn dictator with a suitcase nuke.

""I lived with the Americans for one year and eight months as if I was living in hell," Baghdad shopkeeper Amjad Qassim al-Aliyawi told The Associated Press after he was released from 20 months in captivity without ever being charged with a crime or even being told what he was suspected of doing.

According to an AP investigative report, the American government holds some 14,000 detainees in secret prisons around the world. Few have any idea why they are held, all are denied legal representation or even given details of the charges against them and many are later released without explanation or even an apology.

"If you, God forbid, are an innocent Afghan who gets sold down the river by some warlord rival, you can end up at Bagram and you have absolutely no way of clearing your name," says John Sifton of Human Rights Watch in New York. "You can’t have a lawyer present evidence, or do anything organized to get yourself out of there."

Evidence continues to mount that many of these prisoners are tortured in ways that violate the Geneva Convention, the international accord that governs how civilized nations are supposed to treat prisoners of war and President George W. Bush reminds us constantly that we at "war" with "terrorism."

But America is really at war with itself, attacked from within by a madman President who claims a divine mission from God, waging a fierce battle against the principles that once guided this nation and set it above those who treated human life with callous disregard and claimed any means, no matter how barbaric, justified the cause.

America is no longer respected by its allies, admired on the world stage or trusted by its own citizens. Polls show an overwhelming majority of Americans think Bush’s lies-based war in Iraq was a monumental mistake. Most also think the President of the United States is dishonest and that our government lies to us on a regular basis.

Sadly, they are right. The Iraq war is an incredible FUBAR that has destroyed a nation, created a new haven for terrorists and cost more American lives than the attack on the World Trade Center in New York. Bush is not only a serial liar but an unstable despot whose sanity is increasingly doubted by members of his own family and party. He ignores the will of the people he is supposed to serve, violates international law at will and shreds the Constitution along with the freedoms it once protected.

America has detained without charges, and then released without explanation or apology, nearly 18,700 people since June 2004, the AP investigation found. Many of those released tell horror stories of their treatment while imprisoned, including torture by attaching electrical wires to genital areas, waterboarding (creating the fear of drowning by submerging prisoners), use of dogs and threats of long-term imprisonment.

Waleed Abdul Karim, 26, told the AP how his guards would wield their absolute authority.

"Tell us about the ones who attack Americans in your neighborhood," he quoted an interrogator as saying, "or I will keep you in prison for another 50 years."

Such treatment only fuels hatred towards this country. "I will hate Americans for the rest of my life," Karim said.

I understand why Karim hates Americans and the country they represent. I don’t hate America. I love my country but I hate what our so-called leaders have done to her.

Thanks to the illogical, illegal and insane actions of George W. Bush and those who follow him, Americans can no longer hold their heads high and take pride in their country. Bush and his fellow terrorists have destroyed a great country and I fear the damage may be permanent and irreparable.

94 Responses to "Ashamed to be an American"

  1. TRUTH 101  September 18, 2006 at 5:48 pm

    OK FOLKS;

    Doug’s Rant DID NOT describe George W. Bush:
    Doug’s Rant described DICK CHENEY.

    GEORGE W: BUSH IS:

    The President of the united States of America
    HE is responsible for the State of the Union.

    BUT HE IS NOT RUNNING ANYTHING, He IS NOT REALLY DECIDING ANYTHING

    YES, he IS RESPONSIBLE and needs, hell, MUST be held accountable.

    BUT, if you impeach
    GEORGE W: BUSH, If you charge him in any bill or document of anything from NOT upholding his oath of Office to War Crimes, what you will end up with is a disgraced in NAME ONLY President and the real problem stepping to the forefront and becoming the NAMED PRESIDENT.

    PAY ATTENTION:
    THERE WOULD BE NO CHANGE.

    After November elections the people of America have the most important decision to make of their entire lives as truly still to some extent FREE PEOPLE.

    They either IMPEACH and TRY THEM ALL or kiss freedom, the Bill of Rights, The Constitution good-bye. FOREVER

    Do you believe for a single second that Dick Cheney would care 5 seconds if George W, Bush is impeached and tried for anything?

    THINK AGAIN !!!

  2. V  September 18, 2006 at 5:50 pm

    FYI, Dubya sets a new historic record.

    Presidential I/Q report

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/September2006/180906IQ.htm

  3. timr  September 18, 2006 at 6:28 pm

    the bushies aren’t really the ones that bother me, the ones who really bother me are the number of people both in and out of government, who are so willing to torture people. Is it because they are afraid, and GWB does what he can to keep people scared, or is it something lacking in us as a people. We say that we are a country of laws, but we condone cheating by vast numbers of people, and lawbreaking by millions-speeding,running red lights, etc. kids see their parents breaking laws, or hear them talk about cheating on their taxes, stealing office supplies, or other kind of things. Does the breaking of laws help lead us to that slippery slope? Why are so many people, intelligent and, one would think, law abiding, so much in favor of torture, and in keeping people, or picking up people, in violation not only of our laws, but the basic rights of the constitution.Sure, these people might not be the nicest guys on the planet, but as people they still have rights. The bushies, when caught, just try to make what they have been doing legal. Why are so many people eager to torture suspects? Are we so shallow, or so afraid, that anything our “leaders” want is fine with us. Has the MSM made it ok for the government to do this? I have lots of questions, but no answers.
    While GWB invokes the Nazi’s at every turn, I have to wonder why, we, the citizens of the US, are doing the same as the citizens of Germany did, allowing, and even encouraging, the government to break the law. Or is it that we don’t want to know about the sewage that runs under the surface.
    The ” I know nothing, I see nothing, I hear nothing” defense-the sgt Shultz defense, is covering up crimes that our government is comitting in our name. And 40% of the people agree with that. As long as the sheeple have their beer and circuses(football and bball) they don’t care what the government does, but to be willfully blind is not an excuse-we blamed the german civilians for what they let the Nazi’s do. Our citizens are just as much to blame, not wanting to know what you don’t know, is no excuse. 40% are willing and eagar to allow torture. Never forget that your fellow americans are ready willing and able to help GWB in this dismantling of the constitution

  4. JoyfulC  September 18, 2006 at 6:32 pm

    Americans must join with citizens of nations around the world in calling for high-ranking members of the Bush administration to be charged with war crimes. We can’t let them get off scot free.

    ..c..

  5. Trevino  September 18, 2006 at 6:39 pm

    Getting tuff Thompson.

    Thank you.

  6. doug  September 18, 2006 at 7:20 pm

    Don’t be ashamed of (y)our country. It’s not our country at fault. It is the stooge Bush and his masters who have done this.

  7. TRUTH 101  September 18, 2006 at 7:40 pm

    WHY do you think that this administration refuses to accept the War Crimes Tribunal at the Hague.

    So if our soldiers do something wrong or on impulse or out of EXTREME fear or because they are among the VERY FEW that should have never been in the military in the first place they can be charged and tried as war criminals.

    BALONEY.

    That is NOT the real reason. Don’t kid yourself

    We can somehow capture and take a Milosevic or a Rasdic, or anyone else we so choose, from any other country, to the Hague or we can somehow TRY Saddam in his own country, BUT GEORGE W. BUSH and DICK CHENEY and DONALD RUMSFELD et al. are exempt.

    Spying on Americans, checking their e-mails, their phone conversations, their reading material, not allowing them DUE PROCESS if questioned, putting them on a no-fly list intentionally or by mistake and NOT telling them how or why…This according to our Nation and our current Congress is OK.

    This is called the PATRIOT ACT. A fancy name that will make the termially stupid proud and paste flags on their cars and mobile homes to storefront windows. It will make the disinterested…still disinterested. Therein IS the problem.

    Ye, ROVE has it figured out.

    Do any damn thing you want, tag it with a fancy title, a neverending we fight them there so we don’t have to fight them here and foster a never ending climate of fear so bureaucrats don’t even have to do their jobs well and the SHEEPLE will go BAAAA and not complain much.

    The REAL American Patriots are too few in number right now to get anything done.

    But Come Novermber 8th, that MUST CHANGE. PERIOD:

  8. Dorkster  September 18, 2006 at 7:43 pm

    I’m afraid that Doug has gone over the edge. This really worries me, because I agree with everything he says.

  9. Doubtom  September 18, 2006 at 7:44 pm

    Like Doug,with perhaps a bit more perspective due only to more years, I find myself profoundly ashamed of my country. I have also fought in two wars while not always being entirely sure of what I was fighting for. One thing I do know is that I wasn’t fighting so that cowards like Bush and Cheney could rise to the top of our system of government through the use of money and propaganda.

    I’m ashamed that we can’t even seem top mount an offensive against these rich gangsters much less impeach them. Yes, I’m very much ashamed.

  10. doug g  September 18, 2006 at 8:16 pm

    The ”doug” who wrote ”Don’t be ashamed of (y)our country. It’s not our country at fault. It is the stooge Bush and his masters who have done this.” is not Doug Thompson.

    I just realized that that might have looked awkward.

  11. keith  September 18, 2006 at 8:17 pm

    Anyone who has served in our nation’s armed forces, or who has held other public office in our US Government (including Mr. Bush and the members of the US Congress) have all taken a solemn oath to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States from ALL enemies, foreign AND domestic” (emphasis mine).

    It would now appear that it is high time for Americans to hold all of our elected officials accountable for not only the former part of that oath, but for the latter part as well.

    At times like these, I’m also reminded of a quote from that crusty old (now deceased) former archconservative US Senator Barry Goldwater who said that, “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!”

  12. Bill Robinson  September 18, 2006 at 8:26 pm

    Has the time come for revolution? If we impeach Bush we get Cheney, if we impeach Cheney, we get Hassert, if we impeach Hassert, we get Frist, then the cabinet officers. This is no solution.
    Why can’t we get the Congress to act? Because they make too much money for doing nothing, and they have a pension for life. My Solution: Term limit of 3 years for all of them, a retirement program that’s the same as ours–it’s called Social Security, and if it’s good enough for us, why isn’t it good enough for them? What makes them better than us? They are OUR REPRESENTATIVES, not our rulers. The executive branch is supposed to execute our laws, not execute our people. Who gave Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice the right to destroy the Constitution of the United States of America? They swore to defend it, just like every one of those brave soldiers who they forced into a false war in Iraq. The difference is that the soldiers honored their commitment whereas the Bush/Cheney cabal did not. Bush and the others lied. They are doing everything they can to destroy our Constitution.
    This is not acceptable. We have a document called “The Bill of Rights”–I suggest we all read it and send a copy to our Congressional representatives and urge them to enforce this document. Tell them that if they do not you will vote against them in the next election. Remind them every month. Force the issue. Keep after them. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

    Our representatives in Congress no longer represent us. They are too self-involved and self-serving. Look at their list of privileges and see if you disagree. Some of them have appointments for life (e.g. Supreme Court Justices) that they have taken as implied, but are granted nowhere in our laws. This is unacceptable. We must take back our government. This is supposed to be a government of the people, for the people, and by the people. Do not let it perish. Do not let these terrible people seize it and destroy it without lifting a hand to preserve what so many of our forefathers died to save and protect over the last 200 plus years. Take back what is ours. Take back our country.
    We the people cannot do worse than the fools in DC have done. Any man with a modicum of common sense knew that there was a civil war going on in Iraq 2 months ago, yet our government refused to admit or acknowledge it. Even the news media wouldn’t call it a civil war. They are afraid to be honest. Maybe we need less reporters “imbedded” and more reporters who are objective.
    If we must take to the barricades, to the streets, we must get the media on our side. We must find a few impartial journalists to air our voices. Doug is one, but his voice is here on the internet. We need National Exposure. We need TV and Newspaper coverage. We need to do this peacefully for violence is never a solution long term. Ghandi proved that peaceful protest can be a powerful force, King showed that it would work if the media coverage would follow. Let’s not lie down and be run over by tanks in Tienamen. Let’s stand in front of the tank with a briefcase with a camera at our back and the whole world watching. It is our country, not theirs. Remember that always.

  13. Jennifer  September 18, 2006 at 8:43 pm

    Just stop. The more crap you put out there the more people from other lands hate us, Stop the hatred. If anyone of us would realize that fear breeds hate. You have to realize that there is going to be conflict as long as humans think they are separate from one another, until everyone decides to realize that all humans are part of the great big scheme of things will we understand that we should not hate our enemies, we should pray for them. And by pray I mean pray in the way you were taught, but with more compassion, and more feeling, (It doesn’t matter if it’s God or Allah or Jehova, or what ever diety you want to pray to.) Pray that people start looking with their (God et. al) given insight, that yes good people do bad things, and bad people do good things for their own reasons. If you’d stop complaining and start praying more maybe there would be a bigger influence on the “powers” that be. Pray not with contempt for your captors, pray with compassion, for they who capture you are in fear, they who torture you are in a blind rage. Pray for them who know not what they do for they will receive what the lord hath retained for them. And pray that you indeed are given that which God hath planned for you, not that which you have planned for God. Pray that your will and God’s will be of one.
    When all people realize that none of us truly know all of God’s will, will our faith in (God et.all) will be restored. Faith will cancel out fear.

  14. TRUTH 101  September 18, 2006 at 8:49 pm

    Bill Robinson.

    Extremely well put and Extremely well said.

    There is a little known outlet that people ALL ACROSS the United States can use. This is your Cable Television Channel.
    I have said this before and got very little real response.

    By LAW the cable company MUST provide a “customer channel”.
    Some try and skate with the absolute minimum. This channel is set aside, again under the law so that customers can PRODUCE and AIR TASTEFUL programs on nearly any subject. The best produced ones generally air several times and some are “traded” back and forth to other like cable outlets for airing.

    Simple honest upfront panel discussions NEED to be done by people on this forum or on ANY OTHER FORUM that has figured out exactly what OUR GREAT NATION has become and WHO is responsible.

    Just a start YES, But better than sitting on ones hands.

    By the way the cable operator os also required to provide you with the equipment, the expertise and the airtime FREE OF ANY CHARGE to produce an in studio piece.

    Air America…far far to the left with a lot of egotists is all but dead.

    FOX unfortunately will not die until the FCC wakes up and steps in. So cable local productions are the next best thing. The finished work BELONGS by the way to the producer, NOT the Station and can be given freely to any other channel that will air it.

    This IS a good thing and one way to be heard.

    Tasteful and NOT EXTREME. These are the keys.

    If you want an example of a TOP NOTCH operation like this, there is one called C3TV in South Yarmouth Mass.
    Look up their website.

  15. R. Ruffian  September 18, 2006 at 9:08 pm

    As An old Goldwater supporter I can say he was right about the importance of liberty. I am sure he is spinning in his grave when he hears of Bush masquerading as a conservative.

    Totalitarian behavior in scared and ruthless people is to be expected. People who think they may be held to account are like rats and most dangerous when they are cornered. Bush is trying to insulate himself from any legal repercussions for this international and national lawlessness. He is trying to get a blank check form Congress to authorize these activities as a legal cover. Right now there are only 3 Senators standing between him and absolute power and dictatorship. The Supreme court has already ruled against him and he has chosen to ignore them on Habeas Corpus and prisoner abuse. What was worse for him was that they ruled that the Geneva Conventions applied to the US and were in effect the law of the land.

    One of the houses of Congress has to turn and get and use it’s subpoena power. If not, you can kiss your republic goodbye forever. That means we all need to hold our noses and vote for the local democrat running for Congress or the Senate wherever you live.

  16. john white  September 18, 2006 at 9:15 pm

    I fully agree that what we are doing, insofar as the war on terror, is concerned is REALLY bad. The bothersome part is that the Democrats just don’t seem to give a damn so there is no ‘loyal opposition’. Even if they choose to not deal with the terror thing this administration is going to go down, in history, as the most incompetent in history. Not only can they not run a war but they cannot take care of natural disaster in this country! Then there is the ongoing lies and misdirections. Even if the Democrats choose to ignore terror there is MUCH more this administration should answer for but NOBODY is holding their feet to the fire.

    I think, perhaps, this is the real problem. Americans seem to have turned into a race of sheep quite willing to sacrifice just about everything just to ‘feel’ safer (begging the question of whether we actually are).

    Given the level of general dissatisfaction and disgust the whole thing is getting pretty scary. This is, exactly, the kind of situation that can normally spawn a ‘great leader’ and if that happens all bets are off. If that happens bushie will go down in history as being the man who actually destroyed the United States of America!

  17. carol  September 18, 2006 at 9:19 pm

    This parody I wrote says it better than any posted speech I could leave here.

    “God Bless The USA” Based on the performance by Lee Greenwood

    “Sad To Be An Amerikan”

    Well I crawled out of bed yawned and stretched
    Turned on that darned TV
    Wishing I didn’t have to hear
    what Katie was saying to me
    “New Orlean’s has drowned
    FEMA’s playing around”
    And that flag don’t stand for freedom
    They sure took that away today

    And I’m sad to be an
    Amerikan
    In the land of the crave and spree
    Where King George signed the Patriot Act
    to enslave both you and me
    And I’ll gladly stand up
    with my gun
    To defend myself today
    ‘Cause cops are extensions of the FBI
    Gonzales and the NSA

    Now their talking ’bout airport searches
    Random searches on trains as well
    Pass hate crimes bill
    to stifle all dissent
    This country is going to hell
    There’s shame in many Amerikan hearts
    It’s time for us to stand and tell

    I’m sad to be an Amerikan
    in the land of the crave and spree
    Where King George signed the Patriot Act
    to enslave both you and me
    And I’ll gladly stand up
    with my gun
    To defend myself today
    ‘Cause cops are extensions of the FBI
    Gonzales and the NSA

  18. bg1  September 18, 2006 at 9:28 pm

    THE BEST ARGUMENT DEMOCRATS HAVE FOR MIDTERMS

    The best argument the Democrats have for the midterm election is that a Democratic controlled congress would CHECK THE POWER OF THESE MANIACS.

  19. msdrown  September 18, 2006 at 9:38 pm

    to John White: The Dems do “give a damn”, but it just so happens that they are not the party in power. They can mount significant resistance, but need whatever moderate Republicans there are to have any chance of creating change. Unfortunately, as seen last week, with Rove, Cheney and Bush “visiting” Capitol Hill, that the “party” and what is good for the “party” holds sway over our Representatives and Senators, instead of “by the people, for the people”. You will have to hold your nose and vote for Dems or become more ashamed.

    msdrown

  20. Martin Maloney  September 18, 2006 at 10:24 pm

    There is a remedy for the sickness that has infected America:

    “…Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government…”
    – Subversive document of 1776

    The late folk singer Phil Ochs put it this way:

    “…Right before the end,
    Even treason might be worth a try,
    This country is too young to die…”

  21. Gloria  September 18, 2006 at 10:31 pm

    While I, too, am ashamed to be an American, or as it should be labeled, a U.S. Citizen (since when did we take complete reign over all of the Americas? Heck we aren’t even all of North America). Anywho – I also think that the bush must have a low IQ, and certainly low ethics and morals. However, I’d like to point out that the above mentioned “Lovenstein Institute IQ Report” (posted by “V”) was a hoax and offer the information here as to that affect.

    Urban Legends Reference Pages: Inboxer Rebellion (Presidential IQ) •••
    According to a study by the Lovenstein Institute, President Bush has the lowest IQ of all presidents of past 50 years.
    …Presidential IQ Claim: According to a study by the Lovenstein Institute, President Bush has the lowest IQ of all presidents of past 50…
    …Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2001] President Bush Has Lowest IQ of all Presidents of past 50 Years If late night TV comedy is an…
    …not intellectually qualified for the position he holds as there is with President GW Bush. In a report published Monday, the Lovenstein Institute of…
    Wed, 26 Jul 2006 04:58:20 GMT http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm

  22. Kaine  September 18, 2006 at 10:39 pm

    I see alot of people saying that the dems aren’t doing anything about this situation. I find it funny, that all legislators take the same or similar oath. And that oath is to pretect the constitution of the united states. Dems and repubs alike take this oath, yet the repubs aren’t even considered when it comes to “not doing something about this”.

    Why is this? Why are the repubs not held to the same standard as the dems? Can’t either party do something about this? I mean, they all took the same oath to uphold the constitution!

    Anyways, about being ashamed…

    I don’t know that I can yet feel ashamed to be an American. Embaraced….yeah. Ashamed of this government…definatly. But ashamed to be an American…I’m not at that point yet. Maybe I should be. I may reach that point within the next 3 years, but I’m not there yet.

    I think, we, as a country, still do alot of good in the world. We are mostly a generous people. I know alot of foreigners will argue this point, but just because our contributions per GNP aren’t as high as other countries, doesn’t mean we don’t contribute much to the betterment of the world. I am talking about the contributions of the American people, not of this government.

    I also think that the attitude of many Americans have changed drastically in the last year. I think maybe, her citizens are awakening to find the mess we are currrently in.

    So, if, when you say, your ashamed to be an American, you mean your ashamed of the American government, then yes, I am ashamed of my government. But if you mean your ashamed to be an American citizen, then no, I can’t agree with that. At least not yet.
    If you can’t differentiate between the two, then maybe you should be ashamed!

  23. richard nemo  September 18, 2006 at 11:31 pm

    Bush is a war criminal and a fascist, the Republic is now moribund; and those 14 prisons are no different than Stalin’s Gulag.

    Who ever votes(d) for these thugs is as guilty of war crimes as Bush and Company.

    Maybe “America” will wake up at some point before it’s too late–If it isn’t already.

    R. nemo.

  24. marblex  September 19, 2006 at 12:01 am

    Any more questions as to how it happened in Germany?

    I thought not.

  25. Trudy Springer  September 19, 2006 at 12:18 am

    In the past I was ashamed of some of the things America did, like the Jim Crow laws, putting Japanese Americans in detainment camps, the Viet Nam war and the Watergate mess. Back then we had leaders who weren’t afraid to stand up and be counted, sure there weren’t many but enough that Americans could count on them. We also had a media that wasn’t in fewer and fewer hands and we had young people who cared more about issues than products. Today we have leaders who only care about their lobbyist friends and their corporate campaign contributors. They pay lip service to the people but only when an election is looming, secretly I’m sure they would all prefer to deny Americans the vote, it would make things so much easier for them and their cohorts.

    Today my shame of America is deeper and more encompassing than I ever thought it would be. We stomp around the world bellowing our orders to all others, beating our breasts to show our patriotic fervor and deem all who aren’t Americans as having less value than ourselves. After all we are an empire and must behave accordingly, forgetting that every empire that ever existed always fell. They fell from their arrogance, their rigidty and refusal to talk or even try to understand other nations and peoples. They fell because luxury mattered more to them than ideals.

    In my 63 years I have never seen the complete lack of interest in doing any serious critical thinking than I witness now. I keep thinking of an old Phil Wylie book titled “Generation of Vipers” and feel that this generation certainly qualifies. I am urging my children to immigrate to Canada because Canada reminds me of what America was like in the late fifties, not perfect but certainly 100% better than it is now. I know there are many who think I should want my children to stay here and work to make things better, and for years that is exactly what I preached. But as the song says ‘you got to know when to hold up, know when to fold up, know when to walk away and know when to run’, I want my children to walk away before the only option left is to run away. I fear that saving democracy in America is a lost cause.

  26. M.Mogilevsky  September 19, 2006 at 12:41 am

    All right, Doug Thompson!

    Show me the evidence. Proof that W. is out of control, and all those things that you keep repeating about him have been verified by a second party who shall not remain nameless. WHERE IS THE PROOF? All I have read on that subject from you is hearsay or second-hand accounts of his bad behaviour.

    However, do not confuse me with being a defender of W., because I definitely am not. I await your reply with unabated anticipation. I hope you have proof of W.’s abject and dismaying behaviour!

  27. Michael  September 18, 2006 at 3:53 pm

    There are a lot of people like you. My wife and I are two of those people that are not happy at all with the way this country is going. My father and mother would not know the USA anymore. I am so worried about what this country is doing to our children. What it is doing to our senior citizens. And what we are doing in other countries.

  28. Ray  September 18, 2006 at 3:58 pm

    Why no one demands Impeachment is curious. Is it because there is no two party system and powers of separation are meld into one Dictatorship now?

  29. JimZ  September 18, 2006 at 4:07 pm

    I’m sure Rush and G. Gordon can explain it all to their listeners this week as to just WHY America has to detain 14,000+ prisoners in secret prisons with no legal basis or charges against them? I’m sure there’s some “rationale” for such an embarassment. I mean, anyone who could be against this CERTAINLY must be a LIBERAL!

    Question to “real” conservatives and the so-called “Christian” supporters of King George 0: Have you thought about how much all of this costs, especially considering the companies contracted out to do it such as the Halliburtons of the world (who have been fleecing us for years)? The truth will never be known because all of this will be top secret. When your Social Security or government retirement check bounces then you’ll know we hit the limit.

    Question for the Corporations living off of public welfare who pay no taxes but control our government: If this continues, don’t you think your tax breaks will eventually be cut off? I mean, welfare mothers are welfare mothers.

    Question for defense contractors: When will your new contracts be cut off because we’ll spend more on secret prisons and surveillance of our own population than new weapons programs?

  30. boethius  September 18, 2006 at 4:12 pm

    Yes, indeed, but…
    WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

  31. blojj  September 18, 2006 at 4:15 pm

    don’t worry, the rest of the world still has such faith in the american people that all they really want is for americans to take control of america.
    here’s what you must do:
    start a petition to outlaw electronic voting machines in your state. some states allow for binding citizens-initiated referenda, so this might be a law you can pass yourself, without relying on the lawmakers to do it for you. do it in states which don’t have electronic voting machines & secure democracy while you can. also do it in states with electronic voting machines. at least force the bastards to steal another vote so everyone can see the disparities between poll results & the official count.
    then start a petition to instigate instant-runoff voting in every election.
    if your state does not allow binding citizens-initiated referenda, start a petition anyway, make the political candidates see the electoral advantage in supporting these two proposals.
    in this way americans can start winning back, piece by piece, the country that has been stolen from them.

  32. Stavo  September 18, 2006 at 5:03 pm

    It is as if I had written your article. I am so bitter, even more so than after the Vietnam trips. We as Americans had best stand up and be counted now, for the enemy is now here, in the guise of far rightwing neo-cons and they must be stopped at any cost. If not, then the constitution is not worth the paper it was written on. Think about it,

  33. CB  September 18, 2006 at 5:13 pm

    Just who are these Bush supporters? Do they really think Bush is going to lead them to the rapture? Is that why they support him no matter what? Since he is going to take them to heaven, why bother to do what is right here on earth?

    Our country sure is crazy.

  34. samiiNH  September 18, 2006 at 5:26 pm

    I have felt this way for sometime myself. I get nausated just listening to the “decider in chief”. These are evil people with an evil message and an evil agenda. They must be removed.

  35. JS  September 18, 2006 at 5:47 pm

    I believe that there is not more of a “roar” from US citizens regarding Bush and his Administration because of the intimidation tactics applied to US citizens that do sound off loud enough to be heard. Bush by his own admission is the “decider” and he decides whatever he wants on a moment to moment basis. George Orwell’s “1984″ is no longer fiction. In my 50+ years this is the darkest and most dangerous president and administration I have witnessed. The most important message in need of being thoroughly networked through our society today is WAKE UP NOW.

  36. G. Anton  September 19, 2006 at 12:49 am

    Just to list a few of George Bush’s (I believe) unintended accomplishments:

    1. He has destroyed and politizied the US army (which once was a proud and respected
    fighting force). Career officers are resigning at an unprecedented rate, and all military
    resources are being wasted in a stupid and senseless ‘police action’. (The air force and
    navy are probably in the same boat.)

    2. Internationally speaking, the US has no friends–just enemies that vary only in the
    passion and intensity of their hatred, and in their propensity to take political and/or
    physical reprisals against us. (Mexico is a possible exception–may God bless Mexico).

    3. George is in the process of destroying the U.S. economy. The country’s debt (federal
    debt, balance of trade related debt, etc.) is enormous and enormously nauseating, and
    the U.S. is on the verge of an economic depression a comparison of which to the
    depression of the 1930s would be like comparing the blast of a canon to the pop of a
    pop gun. No deceit, lies, spinning, or the rewriting of history will get him out of
    this one!

    All of the above (and much, much more–the actual damage is incalculable and possibly
    beyond belief) has been accomplished with bad faith, lies, spinning, and (worst of all)
    in the name of Jesus Christ.

    I agree with ex-president Carter–by whatever means necessary, we will take our
    country back from the grey ones–from the Bush’s, the Cheney’s, the Rumsfelds’s, and
    the Rice’s–but it will never be the same again–at least not for a long, long time.

    G. Anton | 09.12.06 – 11:27 pm | #

  37. likspittle  September 19, 2006 at 2:22 am

    follow the money trail-then you will find out who’s behind this. Bush can’t find his ass with both hands. Get the camps ready for us DISSENTERS.

  38. Ronald Bradley  September 19, 2006 at 3:36 am

    You’re absolutely right! We (ex-Yanks, now Aussies) bailed out of US in 1982.

    Vietnam vet, also.

  39. David Crump  September 19, 2006 at 4:24 am

    I agree. Please see following Bush / Hilter parrallel. I fear for our country. I have written letters (6 published), been politically active and am trying to impact our broken governance. I feel as if it’s 1933 in Germany. We have a duty to speak out!

    FRIGHTENING HISTORICAL PARALLEL

    History continues to repeat itself. Hitler, in 1938
    wanted Germany to have living space. Bush/Cheney in 2001 wanted the U.S. to have more control of the oil supply. Hitler then promotes fear of the Polish
    Threat while Bush/Cheney promotes fear of the Iraqi
    Threat after 9-11. The German SS fake an attack by
    Poland on German Border installations while
    Bush/Cheney uses fake documents on a Niger-Iraq
    uranium deal to prove Saddam is trying to obtain
    nukes. Hitler then demands war powers from the
    Reichstag based upon the false attack by Polish
    forces. The Bush/Cheney Administration demands war
    powers from the Congress largely due the threat of
    Iraq having Nukes and other WMD’s. Germany then
    invades Poland with overwhelming force in Sept. 1, 1939. The U.S. forces invade Iraq with overwhelming force in March 20, 2003. What’s next America??

    David W. Crump

  40. John Rice  September 19, 2006 at 5:06 am

    Doug,,,
    I share your grief concerning the loss of our nation, and what we both raised our hands and swore an oath to defend. I believe we both take that oath as seriously now as we did when we pledged it, and I believe we are not alone–that such fidelity pervades not only grey-beards, but many of today’s soldiers as well. Many are refusing to serve in an illegal and immoral war—they are refusing to become war criminals or victims.

    Unfortunately, what most of us were deluded into believing about our nation is now sliding down the tubes into the shitter. Yes, we were lied to–and yes, we chose to believe those lies because the alternative was so damning we couldn’t. We needed to believe we were righteous, in order to do what we did, and that includes veterans of Korea, Vietnam and Iraq, and everyone in-between who helped. In reality, we find that it never was about freedom and democracy—it has always been about power, dominance, wealth and empire–needs where death is almost inevitably described as being “collateral”.

    The problem is bipartisan. Both of the major political parties have been irrevocably compromised and corrupted by special interests. It is time to try something that hasn’t succeeded since Abe Lincoln took the Presidency 8 years after starting the Republican Party. It is time for a third party movement to quite literally show the way to saving our earth from ourselves. We must do this because we know others will not.

    This is doable—now easier than ever—if only given a chance to succeed. Now more than ever before are party regulars disenchanted in a bipartisan way. If given a chance, a vibrant and inclusive third party might even awaken those who have given up on the system and don’t care and don’t vote.

    More than that, only a third party will be able to delve into and expose the corruption which has overtaken both of the other parties.

    I urge you to take a look at the Neither Party movement ( http://www.neitherparty.org ) and help create an alternative to the status quo. It is either that, or more of the same.

    Regards,,,John
    ( john_rice@neitherparty.org )

    PS If you think this revelation was hard to take, wait until the next one—where you finally accept the truth about 9-11, and realize that it was an inside job. (And deep down inside you know it is true already.)

  41. rbank  September 19, 2006 at 5:13 am

    Thanks Doug for saying what I have been feeling for 6 long years. I was ashamed to see AMericans rioting to stop the count of votes. I was ashamed when my mother thought it was alright to stop the vote count because she is my mother and she taught me right from wrong. I was ashamed when the Surpreme court annointed bush “king george”. I will never call him my president. I did alot of reading before the election and I was ashamed of how the administration of a (swear word) who went AWOL could make fun of a war hero. I was ashamed that he stole another election. I was ashamed that my mother felt it was okay and said that” god puts who he wants in office.” Her blood runs through my vains, does that mean that there is something wrong with me. I am ashamed that these poor little rich kids have no manners or morals. I am ashamed when they dress down for important world events, I am ashamed that they do not have table manners, I am ashamed that king george manhandles other people, flies into the Queen’s rose garden and I am ashamed that AMericans think it’s okay to put people in secret prisons and torture them, I am ashamed that the media and American people stand behind (swearwords) leaders that give speechs that are angry and hate filled. I am ashamed that king george ate cake and strumbed a guitar while people drowned. Most of all I am ashamed of my family for supporting them and somehow I have taken the guilt of their beliefs onto myself. I love my country but I am so ashamed.

  42. Lou Raskin  September 19, 2006 at 5:34 am

    As young adult I wondered how the people of Germany in the arly 1930s could have allowed Hitler to arise with such power. I would think, never in America. I was wrong; a steady commitment by dedication neocon minded people living and breathing among us have pursued their beliefs for over 40 years only to steal away our very special way of life.

    Nealy one half of my 68 years were directly involved in upholding and defending, in various positions, the Constitution and advancing the idea of “government of laws, not of persons.”

    Puff, in a brief five and one half years, 230 years of hard fought for ways of honoring and respecting people have all but disappeared.

    I agree with Doug on his view that some of the damage will remain. There is sadness in my heart for what this once proud and respected nation has become for hard working, caring and responsible citizens.

    The minds that have led us to our current place are still plotting and staying ahead of the pack making for a dismal future. They will be hard to stop; however, its a battle worth taking on, not just in words, but actions, beginning with integrity for the mid-term elections.

    Know this, once the human spirit becomes fearful and discouraged, all becomes lost; the story of the good people of Germany. Us faithful Americans need to stay strong despite the daily set-backs and continue to let this Administration know their direction is unacceptable. Also know, you are not alone!

  43. Charles Moore  September 19, 2006 at 6:10 am

    I am not ashamed at America I am ashamed of the goverment.George W. Bush should have never been president.he was selected by the supreme court.Albert Gore should have become president.what do you expect from a man that lied and cheated to become president.I never seen a man so power hungry.

  44. Teddy R.  September 19, 2006 at 6:27 am

    ‘Such treatment only fuels hatred towards this country. “I will hate Americans for the rest of my life,” Karim said.’

    Time to catch up. I had my fill of Muslims and American pussies over 20 years ago. neither are worth the time it takes to hate, but I sure won’t change lanes to protect the lives of either one.

  45. Insight  September 19, 2006 at 7:35 am

    I’m not ashamed to be an American or, as some others here have already pointed out, a citizen of the United States of America (but it’s so much easier to say “American”). But I certainly am ashamed of our president and I’m ashamed that so many of our fellow citizens have supported him, blindly or otherwise, and kept him and his friends in office.

    The United States of America consists of some land here on Earth, and some ideals as represented by various documents (Constitution, Bill of Rights and others) that help define these ideals, and it also consists of “we the people” who are supposed to try our best to live by the ideals of our country. “We the people” can’t all meet to consider issues and make decisions so we have this system whereby we have given certain ones of us the trust and privilege of getting together to represent us. Unfortunately, it seems that most of those whom we have thus entrusted with our lives, liberties and pursuits of happiness have sorely failed us. And, even more unfortunately, the rest of us have failed to do our parts to help make our system of ideals work and keep it working. Of all of these failings I am deeply ashamed.

    Yet our ideals still exist because they can never be taken away from us, and of them I am proud. Only by focusing on these ideals and by doing all we can to return to them as our guiding principles will we be able to act in ways we can all be proud of. To rant and rave, to stoop to put downs and profanity, to go to extremes, to resort to violence, to be ashamed are all forms of giving up. To awaken ourselves more fully to our ideals, to encourage others to awaken to them, to all join together to more fully realize our ideals by putting them into practice as individuals will help us realize our ideals as a great country.

    Only by doing this will we be able to regain the trust and support of other countries and citizens of the world. It will take a while because we’ve been neglecting our work as citizens of the United States of America and as citizens of the World far too long and our country is a real mess, as is the World. Yet there is always hope if we focus on our ideals rather than wallowing in our misery. Our system of ideals may not be perfect but it’s much better than anything else we have to work with, and it also has the potential to evolve into something even closer to perfection. It is we practitioners who are far from perfect and therefore need to work on perfecting our citizenship. If we citizens could learn to live up to the ideals of our country, then we stand a chance of really bettering our lives and helping others better theirs. Then we can all feel proud together.

  46. Mary  September 19, 2006 at 7:50 am

    When are we taking to the streets?

  47. Tom A.  September 19, 2006 at 7:51 am

    The number of Americans heading for Canada has grown enormously in the past few years — and they’re not all “war resisters.” Many are ordinary Americans who simply feel that their country has gone fascist and they want no part of it.

    Once in Canada, they will likely meet other ex-Americans who crossed the border during the sixties and seventies — at which time they may have been looked after by ex-Americans who left the U.S. in the early fifties.

    Even then, many Americans felt that their country was slipping into fascism. Remember Joe McCarthy and all the witch-hunters who followed him?

    And there was the “underground railroad” long before that. Generations of Americans have moved to Canada in search of real freedom and democracy. Such a world of difference just across an invisible line.

  48. Jeffery Haas  September 19, 2006 at 9:08 am

    I’ve said it many times before but repeating for all needing:

    It is wonderful to see all of you expressing your opinions on this issue and also on the issues of elections and impeachment. Please know that the secret prisons, electronic voting and the impeachment issue will all be handled very soon, in George W. Bush’s THIRD TERM as Unitary Executive for the Duration of the National Security Emergency.
    If my memory serves me right, this emergency will “not be over in our lifetimes”.
    Get ready for UTOPIA!

  49. Blake  September 19, 2006 at 9:13 am

    I agree with Dougs rant about what America has become under this administration. However, what strikes me as crazy is Dougs and most of the American public’s naivete about what has gone on in our name since the end of World War II. Many of the techniques we are now applying in our secret prisons are techniques perfected by the CIA and taught to some of the most notorious Latin American dictators at the US Army’s School of the Americas in Fort Benning, Georgia. The only difference is in the preceding 55 years all of our puppets in Guatemala, The Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Argentina, Nicaragua, Chile, Panama, Bolivia, etc did our dirty work all in the name of Anti-Communism, Corporatism and the illegal drug trade. Now with 9/11 and the phony war on terrorism all bets are off. If we don’t vote the Republicans out as the majority party in at least one branch of Congress, then we might find the decider and his puppetmaster Cheney soon bringing secret prisons to a location near you.

  50. Jenifer D.  September 19, 2006 at 10:32 am

    Imagine how the German people felt in 1933; they were a democracy too; before Hitler blew that all to hell for the next forty-plus years!

  51. Jodi Norris  September 19, 2006 at 11:55 am

    The US desperately NEEDS a regime change — even more than the Iraqis did. Saddam was just a tin-horn nutjob whose bark was worse than his bite. Bushco, OTOH, has proven to be a FAR GREATER menace to our democracy and to the rest of the world than Saddam, bin Laden, Ahmedinejad and Kim Jong il combined! It is my belief that we have reached the point where voting doesn’t matter anymore because these power-hungry thugs have rigged the system and will continue to steal elections by any means and subvert the will of the majority of our citizens. Pity our own armed forces don’t turn their weapons on these loathesome madmen in Washington and get rid of them. It would ultimately be to their advantage if they did and they would TRULY be doing a great service to our country. It’s happened elsewhere, why not here? Nevermind trying to promote democracy in the Middle East. Our democracy BEGS to be restored.

    Mary: I’m ready to hit the streets with you.

    Blake: Great post! Too bad more people either can’t see or refuse to see the connection between 55+ years of meddling in and manipulation of other nations’ affairs and the US government’s arrogant, duplicitous and self-serving foreign policies to what is happening today!

  52. Franny Ward  September 19, 2006 at 11:55 am

    Your ashamed to be living in a country who’s government has been hi-jacked. We all know it, even us “Republicans”. Bush and his PNAC cronies need to go, most likely to South America, like Hitler’s cronies did, before they are lynched in the streets of D.C.

    Enough is enough. All the spinmeisters in the world including Fox News cannot convince me nor countless others of what blatent murderous actions they have done in the last 6 years, including September Eleventh.

    We need desperatly a NEW government, for the people and by the people. Democrats , Republicans, etc are BOTH for Corporations, the common man and woman “taxpayers” are just “mo money”.

    Just scratching the surface here Doug. Great piece you wrote.

    Cheers.

  53. Barbara Adams Jackson  September 19, 2006 at 12:09 pm

    After Bush won the second election and the Democrats were “Gentlemen” and did not fight back, my husband who is a moderate republican and I am not a “Lib” as the posts suggest tried to move to Canada. We are retired and are not wanted, so we’re stuck. We are both old enough to remember “Hitler” and my fellow citizens this smacks so much of what went on during WWII, it’s frightening. When is the country going to wake up and see what’s going on? 14,000 detainees, families 35,000 friends 50,000, 6 degrees. Now we’re into the 100,000

  54. Barbara Adams Jackson  September 19, 2006 at 12:12 pm

    When is the country going to wake up and see what’s going on? 14,000 detainees,families 35,000 friends 50,000 6 degree of seperation.

  55. Barbara Adams Jackson  September 19, 2006 at 12:13 pm

    When is the country going to wake up and see what’s going on? 14,000 detainees,families 35,000 friends 50,000

  56. truth 101  September 19, 2006 at 2:32 pm

    i BELIEVE THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT THE dEMMOCRATS, MANY no better THAT THEIR FELLOW rEPUBLICAN CONGRESSMEN ABD WOMEN ARE

    1. NOT LISTENING TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS BECAUSE FAR TO MANY OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS HAVE STOPPED TALKING TO THEM

    2. FOR THE MANY, HAVE DECIDED TO “GET THEIR SHARE” OF WHATEVER THERE IS TO GET, JUST IN CASE THE POLITICAL WIND SHIFTS.

    3. SIMPLY DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON IN WASHINGTON OR HOW TO DEAL WITH THE STRANGLEHOLD THE PEOPLE FOR A NEW AMERICAN CENTURY (PNAC) HAVE ON WASHINGTON.

    4. ARE BASICALLY AWARE THAT THESE CRIMINALS HAVE AT THEIR DISPOSAL THE MEANS AND THE WILLINGNESS TO USE ANY TACTIC THEY MUST TO “KEEP ANYONE WHO SPEAKS OUT IN LINE”

    5. ESSENTIALLY THEY ARE SCARED TO DEATH OF WHAT THEY KNOW THIS CABAL OF CRIMINALS IS CAPABLE OF

    6. THEY WILL ONLY ACT IF THEY SOMEHOW ACHIEVE AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY IN THE NOVEMBER ELECTIONS WHICH RIGHT NOW DOES NOT APPEAR LIKELY ONLY A VERY THIN MARGIAN OF VICTORY ON BOTH HOUSE AND SENATE

    IN OTHER WORDS, THEY ARE ALL PLAYING BOTH ENDS AGAINST THE MIDDLE WHICH IS WHAT BASICALLY EVERY CONGRESS HAS DONE FOR DECADES. IT’S JUST THAT NOW, THEY MUST STAND UP AND BE COUNTED AND THEY DON’T WANT TO.

  57. joyra  September 19, 2006 at 5:26 pm

    for some time i have been convinced that we will not see a presidential election in 2008. this is because i believe the constitution will be suspended, martial law declared & an announcemnt made that it is too dangerous to change the “leadership” while we are at war with 1. terror 2. iraq 3. iran 4. afghanistan 5. all of the above 6. a new war with someone/some thing we haven’t considered yet.

  58. Elaine Pile  September 19, 2006 at 6:25 pm

    I am not ashamed of
    America, I am ashamed of the President and his mob.
    Two more years before America is completely destroyed.

  59. Jim Ryan  September 19, 2006 at 8:28 pm

    Some men defend this nation with guns, while others like Synergy, myself, Sam and Goldman, along with a few others here, dare to defend this nation in our own ways, right here on boards like this one, where we go against all the fear mongering, lying, cheating and stealing by this very government and it’s all proven.

    There are some so called service members out here that claim to love their country and defend her, but they are total LIARS, because the evidence is right on this board and they ignore it, so consequently, they are giving aid and comfort to the enemy from within. Those HEADING ALL OUR MOST SENSATIVE AREAS IN GOVERNMENT ARE THE ONES that took this nation to war, by lying, straight out. They claimed to have satellite images and locations in the desert, that were nuclear and that in a 45 minute window, they could nuke America.

    YA CAN’T DO THAT WITH ANYTHING BUT AN INTERCONTINENTAL MISSLE, WITH SOPHISTICATED GUIDANCE SYSTEMS ABOARD, which every single person worth their salt knows, that to have those things, you have to do a lot of testing and never once was there any such testing, or this government would have been able to show those missles on the launch pads, just as in NK not long ago.

    That also means, that their had to be missle silos as here in the US, that could support such a launch and that is what they were touting, which all with a brain can see, it was all a lie and because of those lies by this president and congress, —CIA and all others suspect, but I believe the admin had to twist some arms at CIA and the others must have just stayed quiet, so now, bush and congress are all liable for killing all our men and killing all those in Iraq.

    THEY ARE ALL WAR CRIMINALS, JUST LIKE SLOBIDAN MILOSIVICH. (SP)

    In the Geneva Convention, it says in essence, they are war criminals.

    The simple proof, is that if Iraq had a nuke capable of launching, they would have had to do a lot of testing, just like North Korea is and we all see how quick our nation was to show those pictures. If Iraq ever had even one intercontinental missle on their launch pad, we would have had pictures of it and never once did this gov have any real proof and they knew it.

    EVERY SINGLE SERVICE MEMBER KILLED AND MAIMED IN IRAQ, SHOULD BE SUING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND ALL OF CONGRESS AND OUR PRESIDENT SHOULD BE IN JAIL, FOR WAR CRIMES AGAINST MANY INNOCENTS, AS WELL AS OUR OWN SERVICE MEMBERS.

  60. Jim Ryan  September 19, 2006 at 8:36 pm

    Remember Bushes words,–It may be too late if we wait and it may come in the form of a “mushroom cloud.”

    Bush and all of congress knew this was a lie and that is why all service members injured and killed should sue this government.

    Bush words and congress saying nothing contrary, made up the minds of the American public to go to war.

  61. Kris  September 19, 2006 at 8:42 pm

    Talk about a bunch of propaganda and a bunch of sheep following the herd. This spetacle on the internet is what is really wrong with this country. Think for yourselves instead of feeding off of each other’s anger and off whatever the media decides to feed you on any given day. The election process in this country still works and Bush was elected twice. Imagine that. To be ashamed of your country or hate your country and the people who fight for your freedoms – you are the ones who should be ashamed. How dare you! This is the greatest country on earth. I guess the saying about “biting the hand that feeds you” really applies to this bunch who have been writing here. Sick.

  62. carol  September 19, 2006 at 9:25 pm

    Kris–how dare you!! The election process stopped working in 2000 when Bush was APPOINTED president by the judges!!!!

    Maybe we were the greatest country on earth, but we certainly are not anymore.

    You sound like either A: a government plant or B: utterly brainwashed and delusional.

  63. Jim Ryan  September 20, 2006 at 12:00 am

    Then if your not too caught up in the cool-aid, perhaps you can rebutt what I wrote.

    I’d be awfully interrested dear chap.

  64. Kris  September 20, 2006 at 12:58 am

    I really find this whole thing very sad/upsetting that people fall for whatever crap is given to them either through the media or through internet chats like this or through what the government doesn’t tell us and people fall for it! Frankly, we are starting to look like all the countries who are followers not leaders when a bunch of people become irrational like this. Free speech, I guess. At least we have free speech. P.S. No, Carol, I’m hardly a government plant. That’s a little dramatic and proves my point better than anything else I’ve said.

  65. Walter F. Wouk  September 20, 2006 at 12:58 am

    Kris! If you had any balls, you’d sign your name.

    Anonymous messages are the work of cowards.

  66. Kris  September 20, 2006 at 1:07 am

    I really find this whole thing very sad/upsetting that people fall for whatever crap is given to them either through the media or through internet chats like this or through what the government doesn’t tell us and people fall for it! Frankly, we are starting to look like all the countries who are followers not leaders when a bunch of people become irrational like this. Anyone care abou the reaction to the Pope’s speech? Free speech, at least we have it. (No, I’m not catholic) P.S. No, Carol, I’m hardly a government plant. That’s a little dramatic and you have proven my point better than anything I’ve said.

  67. Kris  September 20, 2006 at 1:21 am

    Walter, I’ve signed my name every time because it is required to post anything. I’m apparently stirring up some anger. Reminds me of some things going on in the middle east, i.e., repercussions for having an opionion. Good thing no one knows where I live!

  68. carol  September 20, 2006 at 1:47 am

    Kris–I didn’t say you were a government plant, I said you sound like one or either delusional. We know we have freedom of speech, such as it is right now. And we do think for ourselves. Did you somehow get the idea that just because we read it on the Internet that we automatically take it as the gospel truth? Many of us read articles, others opinions, etc, and then cross reference that information. To do otherwise would be just as stupid as those that veg out in front of the tv and automatically believe that because it’s on the tv news it must be true.

    And yes I did follow up about what the pope said and the reaction to it. At the very least what he said was less than kind or smart, at worst it was waving the red flag and hollering “charge!”

  69. kris  September 20, 2006 at 2:12 am

    Well, halleluia, Carol! At least you admit that just because you read it online or see it on TV does not make it the gospel truth! There is hope! The pope quoted something written hundreds of years ago. Are we now in the business of changing history? Aren’t we important and god-like? (again, I’m not catholic, for the record). No, I’m not delusional. I think for myself, and try to discern what might be accurate and don’t necessarily follow a crowd because it feels better to “belong.” I’m well aware that I am lied to everyday by the media and my own government. By the way, this web site was sent to me by my MUSLIM uncle. Half my family is muslim. It has sure opened my eyes about the way people are talking out there! Kind of scary. Maybe someone should start a NEW country?

  70. Captain Super Action  September 20, 2006 at 6:24 am

    So, Kris, seriously, who should we listen to? What facts are being blindly swallowed here?

    Treat us like potential converts.

    Because it sounds to me like you’ve done little but cast a blanket suspicion on all facts while implying America’s “fighting for freedom” should never be questioned.

    Supporting an army fighting for a non-concrete goal (“freedom”), not believing news from unofficial sources (“not swallowing whatever you’re fed”), and shunning independent outlets of information/gatherings of people (“the spetacle (sic) on the internet”) —

    … isn’t that a perfect sketch of a “good” 1930′s German?

  71. JimZ  September 20, 2006 at 7:09 am

    I see that things are getting a bit heated over someone with a differing opinion from the norm on this thread but it shows how divided we are. I sincerely believe that the reasons why we are so divided include:

    1. Mainstream Corporate Media have been failing us for decades. They have been feeding us either lies, misinformation, or B.S. of no significance that has no impact on any of our daily lives. If anyone noticed, much of this started occurring in the 1980′s when the defense industrial complex started buying up all our media companies. Westinghouse bought CBS (then, strangely morphed into CBS & shed itself of Westinghouse’s traditional name and businesses). General Electric bought NBC. ABC was bought by Disney, which by that time had turned into a conglomerate with its own agenda. Think about it – if the defense industry controlls our airwaves, they can better control our information and opinions about war (read: support war or you’re either traitors or liberal wimps). Fox came from seemingly nowhere and was obviously the voice of the right wing, trying to make up for all the attacks the “liberal” media made against them over the years.

    2. The rise of purely political talk radio. Arguably, NPR was the liberal bastion for years but has been severly neutered over the last decade. Yes, they absolutely were LIBERAL in the true sense, but they were more public/human interest, so by definition, have to be more “liberal”. In the 1990s we saw a vast rise in right-wing political talk radio which seemed to start a trend of serious attacks on the messengers, rather than the messages. That’s the Rush style. So it seemed that rather than people think objectively, they were trained to believe in “redneck logic” without much fact. Now I’m not saying that liberals don’t deserve to be put into their place when they get out of hand (they do), but it was the METHOD that became the cause, rather than the message.

    3. We have been constantly at war somewhere, even after the fall of the Soviet Union. The defense industry didn’t like to see their profits shrink so they use every means they can to promote war and weapons sales. So if they control our government, and the media, and use it to make “patriotism” the focus of our passions, and “pasifism” the enemy, then, they have effectively created a monster that will be hard to stop. Why is peace so undesireable?

    4. Because of #3, they have to create enemies. The enemies don’t have to actually threaten the U.S., all they have to do is have natural resources we want to take/control, fall out of favor from being “our proxy” (many examples), threaten Israel, or just happen to be in our way of some other country we want to attack. Iraq posed NO threat to us. Iran has NEVER threatened us directly, but they do threaten Israel. That’s how their Mullahs hold onto their power. Radicals based in Afghanistan may have actually attacked us but they originated in countries that
    are supposedly our “allies”, Pakistan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia. Have we attacked them?

    I’m getting a bit windy here so I’m heading for closure but as long as the neocons (from both parties) , the defense industry, the oil and pharmaceutical industries, K Street lobbyists etc. find it in their interest to divide and conquer America, they will continue to lie to us and keep us distracted from the REAL issues. So the internet is the last bastion of TRUE freedom in America. We read it and post on it because we have lost faith in our media and our government, to provide us with useful information and the truth. So we all need to realize that just because we may differ in our opinions, we all want the same basic things, food, shelter, love, faith, and FREEDOM. It’s that simple.

    Now coming from a former right-winger and Republican, it can’t be that hard for us all to find the middle ground.

    VOTE AGAINST ALL INCUMBENTS THIS FALL! Vote 3rd party if you have to. Very few from either major party deserve to stay in government. If we keep turning them over they will have a harder time screwing us over.

    And, fear for the coming “Telecommunications Reform Act”, sponsored by that a-hole Ted Stevens from Alaska. In it, they are going to try once again (after it failing on its own merit) to divide up the internet into corporate fiefdoms and try to reduce our ablility to continue our freedom of the internet.

  72. beyond  September 20, 2006 at 7:59 am

    kris the country may be great but the population are not.

  73. Joe Keegan  September 20, 2006 at 2:14 pm

    In the past, many foreigners distinguished between the American people and their government. They don’t anymore. We’ve become the most hated nation in the world due to our foreign policies.

  74. Ola  September 20, 2006 at 2:43 pm

    What is there to say? Anything more to add?
    Well, there’s history. have a look at William Blum’s: Killing Hope: US Interventions in the Third World since World WarII
    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/William_Blum.html

    There is no reason for fear, losing hope. I think there are to many good americans around, even though Bushes re-election was a real surprise for me.
    If you want your president gone, he is gone. “Section 4 briefly discusses the removal of the President, called impeachment.”

    But the problem runs deeper.
    The people in the white house think they are doing good and following a dogm that has to be exposed. There might or might not be a God, but this has no place in politics. Is reason going to be the fundation or is something else? The current administration has not been honest in this.
    And add greed to this. Legalized corruption. How can you have a functioning democracy with politicians having to depend on handouts from private interests?
    There is a reality, and some americans have a problem with it. Some think that they can change it with words or prayer. But it doesn’t work that way. It’s the relationship to nature, reality, that some have a problem with.
    1 + 1 = 2
    ALWAYS
    And the ones that don’t think so are a problem. It’s time you accept this.
    They simply shouldn’t be heard. There’s truth and fact, and those that think they can twist these pillars anyway they want.
    In the bible they are knowns as false profets. Today we know them as psychopaths. With no morals they are drawn to power.
    Is it so hard to think they lust for the white house?

    The road to hell is paved with good Intentions. But your Constitution still stands.

  75. Mark  September 20, 2006 at 3:29 pm

    Just what the hell is wrong with being a liberal wimp? I dont care if queers get married, why should I? I dont care if women abort unwanted babies, is there a shortage of unwanted babies? Is it totally wrong to want to talk about problems and seek solutions rather than just go to war? The farther to the right this gov. swings the farther left I go. Up til this administration I have always supported the President of the United States whether I voted for him or not. My shame is not for the country. I love America, I am ashamed and embarrased by an administration intoxicated by power and greed and by a populace that is too weak kneed to rise up against it.

  76. janice  September 20, 2006 at 5:08 pm

    How did George W. Bush get RE elected? That was when I became ashamed to be an American.

    Where are the Democrats??

  77. Jennifer  September 20, 2006 at 8:23 pm

    Doug,
    I appreciate your articles..they ring true/truth!
    I have a BSS in Naitve American Studies from OU. I graduated summa-cum-laude, but my major was in history.
    People forget USA history. Their fore-fathers used WMD’s against my ancestors, to get rid of the “vermin”, as we were called.
    Sheridan and Sherman stated “that the only good Indian was a dead one”.
    WMD are still used today by the elite class to steal others recourses…same old calvary,same old story..it must end..it will end…. that’s our prophecies, fulfilled. Wisdomkeeper

  78. dale  September 20, 2006 at 10:06 pm

    for all you bush hatters, if you dont like the way things are going in our country, whay dont you move to a country where they would come to your home and shoot you for the critizem of there government. you critize, but do nothing, nothing to change the way you speak. if you dont like it, tell us what you would do to change it. it is easy to condem, but if you wont do something to change, then shut the up.

  79. chad  September 20, 2006 at 11:22 pm

    Hey Dale..
    Go jump off a bridge.

  80. carol  September 21, 2006 at 12:21 am

    dale–if you are going to start that tired old”bush haters move to another country” crap, then at least learn how to spell. You sound ignorant enough as it is;bad spelling only makes you sound more ignorant and more stupid.

    We are doing something clown;we are exercising what little freedom of speech we have left and using it well. What are you doing except waving your little flag and dissing all the rest of us?

    Now I suggest you take your own advice and shut the h*ll up!!

  81. Doug  September 21, 2006 at 12:55 am

    You should count your blessings that you live in the USA and not in some god forsaken place in the middle east where the terrorists live. Our administration clearly made mistakes, but I fully support them 100%, when you dont, you’re siding with the opposition

  82. MARK BATES  September 21, 2006 at 2:21 am

    Since getting into Mexico and Canada is easy, why don’t you “ashamed” people go for a long vacation. Like maybe, for good?

  83. carol  September 21, 2006 at 2:57 am

    Here’s an idea Mark–Why don’t you take a long vacation yourself? Disrespectful whiner.

  84. Captain Super Action  September 21, 2006 at 5:17 am

    The word “support” now means little more than “don’t think about”.

    Most words that spill out of pro-Bush mouths aren’t much more than Pavlovian triggers for moods ranging from acquiescent panic (“911″, “terrorists”) to happily-bending-over-docility (“clarify” torture restrictions).

    And Mark is right. Get out of Germany.

  85. John  September 21, 2006 at 6:13 am

    Dear American people;
    The world does not hate the America of Jefferson, Lincoln, Dr King and it does not hate you as a people (far from it) but it hates and is determined to resist US big business which seeks to enslave us all, including yourselves.
    Rise up!We are with you!
    You have no cause for shame–but get rid of your horrible corrupt politicians who arrogantly seek world dictatorship!
    Long live the great American people! Bush, Murdoch, Rumsfeld, Cheney,
    Rice, Bolton — to the dock at Nuremberg!!
    John/ Australia

    PS- along with their Australian flunkey Howard!

  86. Adirondack Bruce  September 21, 2006 at 6:31 am

    Two thoughts, both for the Right Wing guys like Dale, Doug, and Kris, above.

    Teddy Roosevelt, who was not exactly some pansy “freedom hater,” once said,”No man is justified in doing evil on the grounds of expediency.” If Teddy was alive today, he would want to kick Bush and Cheney’s asses. He would look at those two and see two bad men doing whatever they want BECAUSE THEY CAN. Because they are in office.

    Because you, Dale, Doug and Kris are not looking deeply enough into what Bush and Cheney are doing TO YOU. You folks are letting all this happen, including “terrorism.”

    The other quote going around these days is an anonymous one. “War is terrorism with a bigger budget.” Think about it, folks. What’s so different — or better — about us than those we are supposedly fighting?

    We have better toys. Duhhh.

    Now, dear Rightwing Nonthinking Loyalists, don’t be bitter when you finally learn the truth about your country. Sit back, and learn what the rest of us have known for a LONG time now.

    You will be free to be ashamed, like the rest of us, but then you are obliged to come help us fix things.

    Otherwise, please go back to whatever country you THINK you live in and just be quiet.

  87. JimZ  September 21, 2006 at 7:46 am

    Often when I talk to Bu$h lovers when I say something negative about Bu$h, all they can do is lash out at me and tell me things like “well, you must love Bill Clinton”, or “you must love Ted Kennedy”. They NEVER address the subject that was talked about, only attack the messenger. Like I have to defend those guys. Now that’s a technique for people who can’t think for themselves. Nice training from Rush & Ann Coulter, etc.

  88. Captain Super Action  September 21, 2006 at 8:17 am

    Well, Adirondack Bruce, terrorists do tend to attack civilian targets to achieve psychological results — “social blackmail against innocents” — which, “shock and awe” notwithstanding, armies try to avoid.

    Also, the ones you’re fighting want to kill you, which you probably want to prevent. I mean, that line’s tough to blur out.

  89. Jennifer  September 23, 2006 at 12:48 am

    WMD’s were used against my ancestors in 1774, to get rid of the “vermin”…and you thought that Sadamn had/used them. He didn’t/ he was just another evil man!…wake up America…this was not Manifest Destiny for the white elite, they just claimed it was(repeat now)……they stole/raped/killed my ancestors to control this land…it mirrors what they are doing to Iraq and any other invaded country, where they can rape their resources, too and then put them on “RESERVATIONS” like here in the USA. It’s repeated everywhere in the “Secret prisons” across the world,again with no escape. Do any of you remember Fort Pickens, at Pensacola, with Geronimo and his wife and children held there? Why? Ask yourself that and ask youself why we imprison, and torture others to advance the PNCA.
    People talk about new & improved concentration camps/detention centers to detent those who kwow here….it’s the same old calvary, same old war..
    It can’t happened here???????well it already did and it will happen again.
    Pray for peace,
    Wisdomkeeper

  90. Tom A.  September 23, 2006 at 6:49 am

    Another goodie from Teddy Roosevelt:

    “Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President.”

  91. jezzie  September 23, 2006 at 8:36 am

    I’m so sick of the rhetoric about the ‘unpatriotic dissenters’. Our country seems to develop collective amnesia every decade or so, and forgets what actually happened in history. Our founding fathers were dissenters, and we wouldn’t have the good ole’ USA if it wasn’t for their protests. Or how about this – there is a picture of Saddam Hussein shaking hands with Donald Rumsfeld; 1987 I think. Google it; you will find it. Where the hell do you people think Saddamn got those WMDs and chemical weapons?? THE USA!!! We knew he was killing his people, but we didn’t do a damn thing. Or how about a little known fact present day: we support the President of Uzbekistan, who’s listed on the Human Rights watch list for BOILING PEOPLE ALIVE. Next time you want to bad mouth dissenters, think about that. Would you allow yourself to be a tool of government propaganda, knowing that? Or will you adhere to the chronic collective amnesia & pretend it doesn’t exist?

    Darfur. Rwanda.

    Katrina.

    Bush Policies are failing this country.

    WAKE UP AMERICA.

    Paris Hilton isn’t news.

  92. Tarek Morsi  September 27, 2006 at 7:14 pm

    The eyes doesn’y get blind but the hearts .
    If you feel your power remmember the power of god over you.
    I think George Bush and his admin. is been misguided and they could be corrected by good people
    I have been striped every time I leave the usa and also every time I come back .I was so shamed when my daughter 2 years old asked the custom officer at the airport in NYC why they are looking at here bags. I felt shamed when my son asked me why they single us out.
    I hope that one day the US government correct there international policy and to be fair to others to reduce all risks on us In the USA

  93. lynaqua  October 18, 2006 at 12:21 am

    I cannot believe how long we as Americans have allowed this to continue !
    Or for that matter how it
    could possibly be happening.
    This is to sad… for everyone. Vote,do not say “My vote is nothing”
    People have died so that YOUR vote IS counted !

  94. George McKee  October 20, 2006 at 12:01 am

    Time to move out of the country before it’s too late.

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