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Iraq war going from bad to worse

By
March 28, 2008

President George W. Bush’s failed Iraq war, the same war he recently claimed was “being won,” is going from bad to worse as violence increases and deep rifts emerge within the country’s fragile coalitions.

As violence escalates, Bush and other supporters of the war still claim that the war can be won and that progress is being made.

But those on the ground in Iraq tell a far different story and the escalating violence and bloodshed could bring the controversial conflict back as a primary issue in this year’s already contentious Presidential elections.

Reports AFP:

Baghdad was locked down on Friday amid a weekend curfew with pedestrians and vehicles keeping off the roads after violent clashes this week between security forces and Shiite fighters.

An AFP correspondent said most of the capital’s main roads were deserted after the city’s military command imposed a curfew since Thursday night till Sunday 5:00 am (0200 GMT).

The curfew has been imposed to contain the fighting between Shiite militants and Iraqi troops, security officials told AFP.

Dozens of people have been killed in Baghdad and at least 105 countrywide in clashes since Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki ordered his troops to crack down on “lawless gangs” in the southern city of Basra on Tuesday, according to official reports.

Some sources have put the toll at double that.

On Friday, Sadr City — the bastion of radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr — which saw brutal clashes since Tuesday, was largely calm, an AFP correspondent said.

He said relatives in Sadr City were preparing to arrange for the funerals of those killed in the clashes.

Reports The Associated Press:

Iraqi police say clashes between Shiite militants and government security forces have resumed in at least two cities south of Baghdad.

The fighting in Nasiriyah and Mahmoudiya on Friday comes as the situation is calm in Baghdad. Residents are holed up at home after a weekend curfew was imposed.

Police say four people have been killed and 14 wounded in clashes in Nasiriyah.

Anger has been growing since the Iraqi government launched a crackdown against Shiite militia violence in the southern oil port of Basra earlier this week.

Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr’s followers say security forces are abusing a cease-fire by his Mahdi Army militia to unfairly target them in raids.

The government says it is acting against criminal gangs.

And this from Reuters:

U.S. forces were drawn deeper into Iraq’s four day-old crackdown on Shi’ite militants on Friday, launching air strikes in Basra for the first time and battling militants in Baghdad.

The fighting has exposed a deep rift within Iraq’s majority Shi’ite community and put pressure on Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, whose forces have failed to dislodge fighters loyal to cleric Moqtada al-Sadr from Iraq’s second largest city.

Iraqi authorities shut down Baghdad with a strict curfew on Friday which seemed to reduce the rocket and mortar barrages that have wreaked havoc in the capital this week. Lawmakers, including those loyal to Sadr, met to seek an end to the impasse.

The government says it is fighting “outlaws,” but Sadr’s followers say political parties in Maliki’s Shi’ite-led government are using military force to marginalize their rivals ahead of local elections due by October.

The Iraqi ground commander in Basra, Major-General Ali Zaidan, told Reuters his forces had killed 120 “enemy” fighters and wounded around 450 since the campaign began.

But Reuters television footage from Basra showed masked gunmen from Sadr’s Mehdi Army still in control of the streets, openly carrying rocket launchers and machine guns.

44 Responses to Iraq war going from bad to worse

  1. AustinRanter

    March 28, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    Just in case some of you missed McCain’s comments, which I believe was before his last trip to Iraq…he predicted the very thing that is happening now…because the “enemies in Iraq” wants to manipulate the outcome of this election term.

    Is he right? Is this surge in fighting due to some method being implemented to manipulate this election?

  2. pollchecker

    March 28, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    Have you ever noticed that whenever the GOP is in trouble, either the fighting starts again and the T word gets tossed around again and again and again.

    It’s like a broken record!

  3. Dr.D

    March 28, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    As far as Dr. Paul’s voting record is concerned,I feel confident that any votes agreeing with Bush’s position also passed Dr.Pauls'”constitutional litmus test”also.He is true to his principles,no matter who may or not be on his side.And I would never say that about ANY other politician.
    Ed

  4. Sandra Price

    March 28, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    I believe you (Dr. D)are right about Dr. Paul’s positions. Good Grief, Pollchecker, I’m always interested in your point of view and would love to sit down with you and trade Bush stories.

  5. karmafriend

    March 28, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    I read a story earlier today that said Iraqi police in Basra are removing their uniforms, taking their U.S. guns and joining “the enemy”.

    Also, the Iraqi gov. changed their deadline to the militias in Basra from three days to ten. What does that tell us?

  6. JerryG

    March 28, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    I realize that the following comments here may be controversial, however I choose to voice them regardless.

    It has always been my firm opinion that not enough American soldiers have been killed in Iraq in order for a majority of America to care about what we’re doing there. Unlike ‘Nam, where guys were dying by the hundreds on a regular basis and the tenacious fighting was broadcast right to our living rooms, in Iraq it’s one dead here, two there, a few now and then, all accompanied with virtually completely sanitized visuals. This war just isn’t bloody enough or exciting or exacting enough of a toll on American human life, right?

    The Bush cabal has convinced America that the number of American dead, most of which were killed after the declaration of the end of major combat operations, isn’t of any significance when you compare it to other conflicts. 4,000 dead soldiers? So what, right? We’re safe. We haven’t been “hit” again, right? This is the mantra that resonates in the minds of those who have their head buried in the sand and who are willing to bank roll and finance Iraq while Bush and his war proponents pleasure themselves in our rear end!

  7. pollchecker

    March 28, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    Sandra — together we’d be dangerous to A LOT of people (BIG GRIN)!

  8. pollchecker

    March 28, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    I am convinced that the difference between the public’s participation in Vietnam and Iraq is the draft.

    It was the young people who stood up and said NO to the Feds. That started the public outcry. But if you recall, there was no public outcry until the students started saying NO!

    We don’t have that with Iraq! They are all volunteers!….or so they thought. There’s a new movie coming out today called “Stop Loss”, that hopefully will open up some eyes and make people angry!

  9. pondering_it_all

    March 28, 2008 at 10:01 pm

    The level of violence in Iraq is controlled very well by the Bush Administration: They are paying all the different factions, so they get to call the shots. The surge in troop level had nothing to do with it. They just opened up the money spigot to manipulate the militias, the MSM, and ultimately the public perception in the US.

    Now they can use this as a tool to help McCain get elected. If the GOP spinmeisters think they need to marginalize our antiwar sentiments, they can increase the payoffs. If they decide they need a little fear and doubt about the Democrats handling “the war”, they can just shutoff the money. If McCain wins, he can turn it up a notch to give the appearance of “progress”.

  10. pollchecker

    March 28, 2008 at 10:29 pm

    You are correct that they are playing games with all sides and their neighboring states.

    Which only goes back to my original point, in that we are not going to get out of Iraq while GW remains in control of the military….No matter what disinformational propaganda they say otherwise.

    And McCain has already said that he wholeheartedly embraces and supports these failed policies in Iraq so he is ON THE RECORD as to our troops remaining in Iraq indefinitely.

    Somehow there are a still a handful of people who believe that our presence in Iraq is keeping them safer…or something like that! I know it’s insane. Still haven’t found anyone that can give me one logical way the John McCain in the WhiteHouse is going to make me safer.

  11. Bluesman2007

    March 28, 2008 at 11:05 pm

    McCain truly makes me ill. “We’re making great progress on the ground” indeed. But it’s ABOVE ground where we’re in deep shit. These neocons are truly amazing.

  12. SEAL

    March 29, 2008 at 1:20 am

    The reason for the fighting in Iraq right now is the upcoming national election there. Tens of thousands of predominately shiite Iraqis turned out to parade and march carrying signs that said the present government and its leaders “do not support or work for the Iraqi people – they support and work for Bush/Cheney.”

    There must have been close to a million people demonstrating all across the country. There were no criminal gangs as they claim and there was no violence.

    The trouble started when the government sent their troops in to break up the demonstrations.

    I guess this was one of those 3AM phone calls.

    From al Malaki to Bush: “George, they’re carrying signs that say I work for you and not the Iraqi people. I can’t allow them to get that stupid idea. What do I do???

    Bush: When Dick wakes up, I’ll ask him. Good night.

  13. SEAL

    March 29, 2008 at 1:20 am

    The reason for the fighting in Iraq right now is the upcoming national election there. Tens of thousands of predominately shiite Iraqis turned out to parade and march carrying signs that said the present government and its leaders “do not support or work for the Iraqi people – they support and work for Bush/Cheney.”

    There must have been close to a million people demonstrating all across the country. There were no criminal gangs as they claim and there was no violence.

    The trouble started when the government sent their troops in to break up the demonstrations.

    I guess this was one of those 3AM phone calls.

    From al Malaki to Bush: “George, they’re carrying signs that say I work for you and not the Iraqi people. I can’t allow them to get that stupid idea. What do I do???

    Bush: When Dick wakes up, I’ll ask him. Good night.

  14. Klaus Hergeschimmer

    March 29, 2008 at 3:59 am

    Hey Seal, Pollchecker didn’t believe me when I stated the Democrapper Congress merly had to send no bill or the same bill over and over with mandatory withdrawl of US Troops from Iraq until the Chimp Turned Blue; I know that this is something you and I both have stated that the Democrats didn’t need a veto proof majority, they can simply not send a funding bill, there’s no law that congress has too send one at all.

    But The Democrappers Just Don’t Have the Spine of course.

    I know your for Obama and I would like to support Obama but the Democrapper Congress has behaved like Spineless Jellyfish for so long that It is impossible for me to believe any Democrapper. I place high value on your opinions Seal so I am always open to arguments in Obamas favor. I did actually send Obama some donations earlier last year because the thought of Hillary makes my flesh crawl. One thing for certain, we can’t have Pillary Dillary Crock in the Oral Office.

    I really enjoy all the posters on CHB, they are always of such high caliber, I really like CHB.

    CHB’ers are really a good bunch!

  15. Sandra Price

    March 29, 2008 at 7:09 am

    I’m seeing a lot of CHBers understanding right from wrong. We are above Republicans vs Democrats. We try to run new House and Senate members but they soon get pushed through the sieve of corruption and end up working against their own constituents. There is so little left of the GOP that wants my votes and support that I have not voted for any Republican since 1988. The Bush 41 Presidency did me in and I worked like a dog to keep him out of the Oval office. I found we could not talk the voters out of voting for him until we came up with an authentic candidate that caused his loss.

    Just looking at the 3 candidates that are vying for the position is sad and a disaster for the future of America. Every 4 years it becomes more difficult to convince the voters to get educated about who they are voting for.

    2008 has found the voters focused on who they do not want in the oval office. Americans are still very bigoted about women and African Americans. This leaves the same old neoconservative warrior who just may take the title.

    We are not yet ready for the equality of citizenship and the labels are running rampantly through our neighborhoods.

  16. pollchecker

    March 29, 2008 at 8:13 am

    “Hey Seal, Pollchecker didn’t believe me when I stated the Democrapper Congress merly had to send no bill or the same bill over and over with mandatory withdrawl of US Troops from Iraq until the Chimp Turned Blue; I know that this is something you and I both have stated that the Democrats didn’t need a veto proof majority, they can simply not send a funding bill, there’s no law that congress has too send one at all.”

    Please do not put words in my mouth. I said there was no reason to impeach. That it was a useless waste of time.

    And they have sent over bills with an attempt to stop Bush’s invasion in Iraq, but it gets vetoed and they cannot get enough votes to override.

    They will not get enough votes to entirely cut off funding. You can blame the “Dems” if you want, but that is hardly fair since it is not the entire Democratic party but instead a select few you are looking out for their jobs.

    Why not bash the handfull of republicans who are retiring. By my count, there’s enough of them to make the 2/3’rds number. Why don’t they stand up for what is right, ESPECIALLY since they are retiring?

    The worst part is cutting off funding is seen as NOT supporting the troops. This of course if disinformational propaganda that Karl used repeatedly to manipulate the discourse.

    Yesterday, on a show I was watching, when Obama was asked what was the 3 things he would do in the first 100 days he was President and the first thing he said was he would get with the Generals and have them figure out how to start bringing troops home.

    Now the only thing we have left in this country is hope. I understand that there are a lot of people like you who are without any hope. But life without hope……… well, quite frankly that’s what makes a terrorist because if you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to look forward to in your life getting better, than blowing yourself up in the name of a cause, sounds like a pretty good option.

    Give these people back their country and you give them back hope and pride. Pride in their country, pride in themselves.

    Perhaps this is something that could also be applied here as well.

    But we are not going to get hope from John McCain. And I doubt we will get hope from Hillary. So that leaves Senator Obama. Why not hope he will do the things he says? It costs nothing to hope and if he turns out to be just another politician that does nothing that he promises like George and Dick, then we will have lost nothing. But if he can bring different sides together for the good of America, then it will be the shot in the arm that is solely needed these days.

    One thing I do know. Obama will NEVER be as BAD A LEADER or as BIG A LIAR as George & Dick!

  17. pollchecker

    March 29, 2008 at 8:19 am

    The reason for the fighting in Iraq right now is the upcoming national election there.

    You nailed it Seal. They are so afraid of Al Sadr getting elected to a National seat and getting some legitimate power in Basra, that they are using this opportunity to make him look like a “bad guy”.

    Yeah, he’s a “bad guy” who has been a main component in keeping the peace because he has been waiting for this moment.

    Al Sadr’s forces beat ours in Fallujah. They will do it agian in Basra.

    Besides, the Bushies are just using this to further their own disinformational propaganda. Afterall, it is an election year here in America as well. (ggggg)

  18. Klaus Hergeschimmer

    March 29, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    Hey Pollchecker, I wasn’t putting words in your mouth, technically, and legally, the Democrappers don’t have to send a bill to Bush for occupation funding. It does not require a
    a veto proof majority. Ask Seal.

  19. Klaus Hergeschimmer

    March 29, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Hey Sandra, haven’t yakked with you in many moons, and yes, CHB’ers think on a plain beyond Tit & Tat, Beyond Black & White, Beyond Bad VS. Good Guys. CHB’ers can see the many shades of gray, they are Vulcans!

  20. Klaus Hergeschimmer

    March 29, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    Ziffel/Kucinich 08′

  21. Klaus Hergeschimmer

    March 30, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    Hey Pollchecker, there is no doubt about it the fact that there is no draft that there is not a loud outcry against the occupation. Plus the fact that this war has a large mercenary force of contractors troops out there. ChimpCo really learned something from Vietnam in regard to this unfortunately.

    Hey Pollhchecker, were there ever any contractor mercenaries in significant numbers in Vietnam? Or at all?

    Oh One more question, and I’m getting off subject. Was Iwo Jima and some of the other Japanese Islands in WW-II with the Japaneses extensive tunnel systems all throughout the islands sort of a harbinger of what was to come later in Vietnam with the Viet Congs tunnels?

  22. Dr.D

    March 30, 2008 at 6:31 pm

    Sorry Seal,I missed that question that you asked me about Obama the other day,so I’ll answer you now.Zbigniew Brzinski is one of Obamas’main policy advisors,he is also a prominent member of the Council on Foreign Relations.Madeline Albright is one of Hillarys’main policy advisors,and also a CFR member.Henry Kissinger is one of McCains’main policy advisors,and he chaired the CFR a few years back(Albright may have chaired too).I personally believe that the CFR is a criminal and treasonous organization that is dedicated to the forming of a single world government ruled by the elites and destroying American national sovereignty.I know that I probably sound like a broken record,but I do think that these facts are important. Ed

  23. pollchecker

    March 28, 2008 at 9:02 am

    John McCain just got back from there and said EVERYTHING was going GREAT! Maybe they held back the violence until he left (hahahahah!)

  24. OldandSlow

    March 28, 2008 at 9:15 am

    The original Cheney / Neocon plan to have the mostly English speaking, former exiles head up a government beholden to Washington didn’t bear fruit. Oops.

    What we are seeing is the post-surge phase of the US occupation. Those Sunnis who joined the US in the surge want new elections – so they can run their own affairs in provinces like Diyala where they are a majority. Keep in mind that the Sunnis boycotted the Dec. 05 elections.

    New elections could see the Sadrist’s gain power in the South at the expense of Nuri al-Maliki’s new backers, the Shiite Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq. The ISCI will certainly loose power in Diyala as well.

    The Shia ISCI are for the moment the good guys from a Washington perspective. They may be a religious Shia party lead by men in robes and turbans with a very large militia called the Badr Brigade, but to a Neocon like Dick Cheney, they’re more moderate than al-Sadr’s religious movement.

    Basra could be Falluja, number 2. This may backfire, because the supply lines to US occupation forces elsewhere in Iraq pass through the Southern half of the country, which will be destabilized by a crackdown.

    Andrew in Austin, TX

  25. pollchecker

    March 28, 2008 at 9:28 am

    great perspective, Andrew. You are correct that Basra could indeed be the next Fallujah. But remember, American forces did not win in Fallujah.

    BTW, it has occured to me that Iran could be assisting in some of the increase violence in order to increase the price of oil.

    The higher the price of oil goes up, the more powerful Iran becomes in the overall picture of the Middle East.

  26. 33rdSt

    March 28, 2008 at 10:01 am

    Compare Lebanon and Syria. Is democracy the answer in Iraq? Go back 100 years. Will democracy work in Iraq just because Barack’s Uncle Dick wants it to? How many more American lives is this experiement in stupidity in foreign policy worth?

  27. pollchecker

    March 28, 2008 at 10:30 am

    “How many more American lives is this experiement in stupidity in foreign policy worth?”

    As many as GW, Dick & John McCain decide is enough! Ain’t going to happen anytime soon, either! GW is not going to withdraw any troops, period, end of story!

    The only way we are going to get out of Iraq anytime soon is if we can get 66 Senators and 2/3 of the House of Rep to make GW irrellevant and vote AYE on a bill to bring home the troops.

    One would think with all the retiring republicans, we could get it done. But the strong arm tactics of the GOP (Genuises of Propaganda) are powerful.

  28. Sandra Price

    March 28, 2008 at 10:32 am

    Welcome Andrew. Good analysis of the situation. It will take the internet to keep us up to date.

  29. Dr.D

    March 28, 2008 at 10:43 am

    People,Please go to:
    http://ivaw.org/wintersoldier/testimony/video
    If the American people had exposure to information like this on a regular basis,we would be out of Iraq in a heartbeat.I believe that there would be demonstrations in the streets the likes of which we haven’t seen since the late 60’s. Please watch the intro video and some of the testimony,it’s powerful.
    Ed

  30. pollchecker

    March 28, 2008 at 10:53 am

    Powerful stuff, Ed, but it is not going to change anything happening right now! The powers in control aren’t going to change! The only hope we have of getting out of Iraq anytime in the near future is if we elect ANYONE other than John McCain!

  31. old_curmudgeon

    March 28, 2008 at 11:51 am

    With the first Winter Soldier in the early 70’s, there was minimal MSM coverage. But what little coverage there was was soon buried under mounds of scorn and pseudopatriotism by those who either couldn’t believe that OUR soldiers could perpetrate such evil or by those who did not want to make John Q Public more aware than what he already was, which was negligible at most.

    I closely watched the news sources leading up to WS this year and to my dismay found little of consequence. And I saw none at all during the event.

    The attacks against those who testified during the first WS were all about veracity. And even today, their original testimonies are attacked as either fabricated or exaggerated.

    I fully expect that what coverage there might be today by the MSM on WS2008 will be likewise attacks on their validity. But, after a week since the event there has been no coverage. The MSM has ignored it because they do not want John Q Public to know what we (as a nation) are allowing to be done. They know that JQ Public can’t handle the truth.

    War is war. Nothing goods comes from it. Sometimes you must be completely cold about what is done. But there is a line you do not cross in war. This line defines the Rules of Engagement. This line defines our humanity. And just because some military court rules that “actions were justifiable” doesn’t release those involved from what happened.

    Has anyone really looked into all those suicides by veterans of this occupation? There has to be a reason why so many have decided to check out. Maybe what is being done in Iraq is more than these kids can handle. Or maybe the care and counselling they receive when they return is inadequate.

    The reason Bush is not going to draw down troop levels before he leaves office is because this is all about his legacy. If things remain static until he leaves then he/they can say that the next President blew it. George just wants al Maliki to hang on till then.

    But I don’t think he’ll make it. The summer is long and hot in Iraq and this has been percolating for too long. This civil war cannot be contained any longer. And this is Bush’s (and the republic party as well) worst nightmare. A crumbling economy at home and a wide open, full-scale civil war in Iraq.

    This is just this old curmudgeon’s opinion, of course.

  32. Dr.D

    March 28, 2008 at 11:13 am

    I understand exactly what you’re saying pollchecker,but I’m afraid that Hillary or Obama won’t do much better.They are both beholden to the same neo-con machine that got us into this mess to start with,and it will be business as usual with a few carrots thrown in if one of those two get in.Public education has to be the answer.
    Ed

  33. pollchecker

    March 28, 2008 at 11:30 am

    You can’t educate people who don’t want to be educated! The American people have already decided they want our troops home.

    I understand your point as well about the Dems. But we have a much higher percentage of probability of getting our troops home with a Dem, than with John McCain who has already publicly stated that he has no intention of bringing home our troops and that they can stay there 100 years if necessary.

    Personally, I don’t think Senator Clinton will bring home the troops either. She’ll be too scared to be seen as “weak on security.”

    But they may not have a choice. Either they stop hemorraging money into Iraq or we face MORE serious financial difficulties in our immediate future.

  34. SEAL

    March 28, 2008 at 11:42 pm

    Dr. D you make exactly that same statement every time you type, no matter the topic. In Hillary’s case I agree with you. She is business as usual with the same old gang. But what is it that makes you believe Obama is tied up with the same people?

    I don’t see it. His whole campaign is built around the pledge that he is not beholden to any corporate lords. If, in fact untrue, that would make him another George W. Bush – “I’m a uniter, not a divider.” This concept is insane. There is no way he could pull it off.

    And what about the FACT that he refuses any corporate money and has returned their checks when received? 90% of his donations have been under $200. The only maximum personal donations of about $2300 he has accepted from CEO’S of law firms and companies have been from their personal accounts, not the company’s.

    I know you have mentioned in the past that Obama has attended some meetings of nefarious groups but if that is your validation we are right back to McCarthyism 60 years later.

    If you have some sort of proof of your contention that Obama is enscounced with the Corporate and/or MIC rat pack, please lay it on me. This is the main reason we are all here – to share pertinent information. Claiming something is so without proof is the worst kind of bullshit and will be ignored along with the poster.

  35. Klaus Hergeschimmer

    March 28, 2008 at 11:40 am

    I want to trust Obama in regards to him getting us out of Iraq, but I doubt that he will.

    After Fancy Pants Pelosi showed her true spinelessness after the Democrappers first won a majority in the house, that was it, I don’t trust the Democrappers period.

    The Sunnis and Shites will soon be mixing things up just like it was at its worst. The bribes that the Chimp is playing both factions is just a temporary delay as there is no reconciliation between them. The discontent is already starting to bubble up its intensity again which comes back to the Democrappers.

    What useless pukes they are with Hairy Reed selling his ass to AT&T with retro-active…immun-ity. If the Chimp does manage to start an aerial attack on Iran, then Fancy Pants Pelosi will have no one to blame but herself for caving into AIPAC when they booed at her back during the first Iraq spending bill when she stated she was going to require the Chimp to get congressional authorization to bomb Iran, and Surprise, Surprise, she caved in and gave the Chimp a blank check to do whatever he wants to Iran.

    Every damn step of the way Fancy Pants Pelosi and Hairy Reed have allowed the Chimp to toss the Iraq Albatross around their necks. The foolish Democrats allowed Bush to snooker them into buying the broken pottery over and over, and now no matter what, the Chimp will end his term, waltz out of office into his little grass shack in Paraguy crasing his mountain bike into banana trees laughing all the way, while our brave, brave, brave, Democrats have adeptly screwed our country and devolved the Democratic party into useless Jellyfish.

    I wish I could vote for Sir Obama of Camelot, but I just can’t, I wan’t to but I can’t, the Democrappers have betrayed us too many times. Pillary Must Be Stopped, she is bad news. The Democrappers are full of crap like a Christmas Turkey.

    “When Danger Reared Its Ugly Head, Nancy and Harry Turned and Fled, bravely taking to their feet, they beat a very brave retreat -Brave -Brave -Brave -Brave -Democraps”.

  36. pollchecker

    March 28, 2008 at 11:57 am

    “After Fancy Pants Pelosi showed her true spinelessness after the Democrappers first won a majority in the house, that was it, I don’t trust the Democrappers period. ”

    I wish it was that simple. The Dems don’t have enough votes to override GW and the strong arms of the Genuises of Propaganda(GOP) have made it clear that they do not care what the people of the United States want.

    What point is it to waste time on impeachment proceedings when you KNOW that it will result in no actions taken.

    Didn’t we put the country through that in the last decade? They wasted tons of valuable time making us listen to their hypocrisy! And I feel reasobaly certain that the majority of Americans don’t want to go through that again even if they think Bush/Cheney are the biggest pieces of dung on the planet.

    The best hope we have is an Obama president with a Dem Congress (not damn, mind you (hahahahaha)) regardless of any doubts because we KNOW what will happen under John McCain, the war monger!

  37. Dr.D

    March 28, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    Pollchecker,Ron Paul has been saying all along that the troops are comimg home soon no matter what,whether it be voluntary withdrawl or forced withdrawl due to bankruptcy soon thereafter.They tried to dismiss him as a nutjob,but he is right.When the whole world refuses to accept dollars anymore and the “Amero”and”North American Union”are shoved down our throats as a result,all of the”I told ya so’s”in the world won’t help.And the Neo-Conservative agenda will have been fulfilled,and Iraq won’t matter anymore as far as they are concerned.If something can be done,it has to be real soon.
    Ed

  38. pollchecker

    March 28, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    Dr. Paul is the only Republican candidate that has had the courage to stand in front of the American people and tell the truth.

    It totally amazes me that the GOP has let him stay in the party. But I would like to point out that he has a record of voting WITH the Bushies on many, MANY issues in the past 8 years.

    Don’t get me wrong. Dr Paul is an old family friend…..but he is still a Republican.

  39. Sandra Price

    March 28, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    Being a Republican is never the point. The platform that they follow IS THE POINT!! The change came about in Reagans final years and his VP Bush carried on with the one world order. By 1992 the GOP was living for their American Empire. It got Bush 41 defeated. Bush Jr. never mentioned this Empire building power house that developed into a war machine under his leadership. Pollchecker I tried to warn CHB of the horrors of the Bush family. I got thrown out and banned. I was nearly hysterical at the votes that came from this site.

    I flew to Atlanta Georgia to meet personally with Dr. Paul, Lew Rockwell, Bob Barr and the CATO people to try and locate what the hell we were going to do if Bush got elected. I called it 100% and sure enough we were at war in less than 7 months. The Middle East had the oil and America was to be an Empire that needed that oil! The fight against Saddam started in Kuwait and when our idiot congress began to see the glory of owning that oil, all hell broke loose. It lit a new vision for America and it was made possible by promising grants to the churches who came out for the first time to vote. They brought Bush into the White House.

    Doug was not around during this time as he had been very ill. When he got back on his feet and returned to CHB he told the truth with his Rants and I was thrilled to be able to return as he wrote what was needed to be read.

    We need two voices of the people for balance. I am not one of those who despise Liberals and I expect to be allowed to voice my Capitalistic opinions.

    Dr. Paul speaks for the Fiscal Conservative side of the aisle. He speaks for the old Republicans who want a limited government and individual freedoms. They took a temporary hit by the Bush Social Conservatives who wanted the war if only to bring on Armageddon. McCain hitched a ride on this horrible plan and we must keep him out of office. He is not a Conservative Republican as he is a snake that changes colors depending on his audience. He does not represent the Fiscal Conservatives of Dr. Paul’s agenda. Many of us here do. We are not your enemy.

  40. pollchecker

    March 28, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    Well, Sandra, glad to see you are still talking to me(gg). I understand the fiscal conservative point of view. You don’t have to be a Republican to have that point of view either.

    As I indicated, Dr Paul is a long time family friend who I have nothing but respect for. But it should be noted that he has voted with the Bushies on many occasions in the past 7 years.

    That said…you and I are on the same page with GW. We were just in different locations warning different people who didn’t listen.

    My take on it is a bit different from yours being raised in a heavily republican part of Houston TX and am the same generation as our idiot leader GW.(need I say more?)

    GW doesn’t do anything unless there is something personally in it for him….like vengeance against someone. His intentions throughout this entire period have been documented in a slew of books. Too bad we couldn’t put everything we know in one book for all the world to see.

  41. Klaus Hergeschimmer

    March 30, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    Hey Sandra, I heard a very good NPR radio interview with Bob Barr and his work he is doing with some other folks who I forget any names at the moment. Barr has been involved with this group that is trying to expose the dangers of the AIPAC lobby and how that lobby is in close cahoots with the American Neo-Cons, has continually been selling its interests against our country, getting us involved in the fool occupation.

    Anyway, I had a new and deep respect for Barr, he really is a strait shooter and not a neo-con stooge and is pro-impeachment against Bush. I recorded the radio show and it was on NPR and If I can find the link to it I’ll send the link to the entire show when I see you on the boards. It is archived and can be listened to right from the page. Anyway, you mentioning Bob Barr really reminded me of hearing that show with him on it.

    The more and more I’ve been on CHB, the more I love coming hear to read the postings of all the CHB’ers and ‘go to school’. CHB’ers are very civilized, and it is so nice to be here. I go to my local area webpage for the San Francisco Chronicle and the bloggers there are very un-civilized, its like being in a pie fight there.

    Capitol Hill Blue -YOU ARE THE ONE!

  42. pollchecker

    March 28, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    “The reason Bush is not going to draw down troop levels before he leaves office is because this is all about his legacy. ”

    I beg to disagree with you on this. You see GW had to listen to a lot of people ask him why his Dad didn’t finish the job when he had the chance.

    So GW swore on his Bible that would NEVER be said about him! He will not leave Iraq because he is a stubborn, arrogant a-hole! He doesn’t give a damn what people think about him….well, maybe a little(ggggg)!

  43. SEAL

    March 28, 2008 at 10:42 pm

    Pollchecker says:

    “What point is it to waste time on impeachment proceedings when you KNOW that it will result in no actions taken.”

    Good buddy, the reason they won’t impleach is what would be exposed at trial would cause the public to demand criminal charges be filed against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and some others.

    The other nations of the world would demand their heads in the world court for war crimes and murder. We could not refuse. They would hang them.

    The US would be held financially liable for all the damage.

    Pelosi would be president which is the last thing in the world she [or you] wants.

    There is more but you should get the picture. One they will not paint as the United States Of America.

    How could you ever expect our congress to create this condition? Of course it was off the table. We will never admit OUR guilt allowing this to happen or put this nation through that kind of “embarassment.”

  44. Klaus Hergeschimmer

    March 30, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    Thanks Seal, that clarified this for me.

    You know what is so hard for me to take about this being a former and recovering Democrat is how Godamn Dumb the Democrapper Party Is.

    I’m trying to find reasons for voting for Obama but I can’t because I have just not heard anything that seems to make him an any better alternative to Hillary.

    I’ve been trying to find some good links with info on Obama and if there is anyone who could send me a link(s) on Obama I would be grateful, but at this juncture, I will be voting for a third party…but I can be lobbied :)

    Thanks Seal for your comments and your comments on this matter too Pollchecker.