Democrats upset with Bush’s waterboard veto

Democrats and human rights advocates criticized President Bush’s veto Saturday of a bill that would have banned the CIA from using simulated drowning and other coercive interrogation methods to gain information from suspected terrorists.

Bush said such tactics have helped foil terrorist plots. His critics likened some methods to torture and said they sullied America’s reputation around the world.

“This president had the chance to end the torture debate for good, yet he chose instead to leave the door open to use torture in the future,” said Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

She said Bush ignored the advice of 43 retired generals and admirals and 18 national security experts, including former secretaries of state and national security advisers, who supported the bill.

“Torture is a black mark against the United States,” she said.

The bill would have limited the CIA to 19 interrogation techniques that are used by the military and spelled out in the Army Field Manual. Bush said he vetoed the measure because it is important for the CIA to have a separate and classified interrogation program for suspected terrorists who possess critical information about possible plots against the United States.

Bush, who used his weekly radio address to announce the veto, said the program had helped stop plots against a Marine camp in Djibouti and the U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, and plans to fly passenger planes into a Los Angeles tower or London’s Heathrow Airport and city buildings.

“Were it not for this program, our intelligence community believes that al-Qaida and its allies would have succeeded in launching another attack against the American homeland,” the president said.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the nation’s ability to lead the world depends on its morality, not military might. “We will begin to reassert that moral authority by attempting to override the president’s veto next week,” said Pelosi, D-Calif.

Based on the margin of passage in each chamber, it may prove difficult for the Democratic-controlled Congress to turn back Bush’s veto. It takes a two-thirds majority, and the vote was 222-199 in the House and 51-45 in the Senate.

Bush said he did not veto the bill specifically over waterboarding, a technique that simulates drowning. The Army banned the use of waterboarding or sensory deprivation on uncooperative prisoners in 2006. The CIA, which also prohibited the practice in 2006, has acknowledged using waterboarding on three suspected terrorists in 2003.

“My disagreement … is not over any particular interrogation technique; for instance, it is not over waterboarding, which is not part of the current CIA program,” Bush said in his veto message to the House.

The attorney general has deemed that program legal under domestic and international law, he said.

Still, waterboarding remains in the CIA’s tool kit. The technique can be used, but it requires the consent of the attorney general and president on a case-by-case basis. Bush wants to keep that option open.

“I cannot sign into law a bill that would prevent me, and future presidents, from authorizing the CIA to conduct a separate, lawful intelligence program, and from taking all lawful actions necessary to protect Americans from attack,” Bush said in a statement.

Democrats say the CIA should be restricted to the techniques in the Army Field Manual. They include the “good cop-bad cop” routine; making prisoners think they are in another country’s custody; and separating a prisoner from others for up to 30 days.

In addition to waterboarding, the field manual prohibits hooding prisoners or putting duct tape across their eyes; stripping prisoners naked; and forcing prisoners to perform or mimic sexual acts. It also prohibits beating, burning or physically hurting prisoners in other ways; subjecting them to hypothermia or mock executions. It does not allow food, water and medical treatment to be withheld. Dogs may not be used in any aspect of interrogation.

Waterboarding involves strapping a person down and pouring water over his cloth-covered face to create the sensation of drowning. It has been traced back hundreds of years to the Spanish Inquisition and is condemned by nations around the world and human rights organizations as torture.

In a memo to CIA employees Saturday, CIA Director Michael Hayden said the Army Field Manual does not “exhaust the universe” of lawful interrogation techniques. “There are methods in the CIA’s program that have been briefed to our oversight committees, are fully consistent with the Geneva Convention and current U.S. law and are most certainly not torture,” Hayden wrote.

Sen. Jay Rockefeller, chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said he had heard nothing to suggest that the CIA, through enhanced interrogation methods, had obtained information to thwart a terrorist attack. “On the other hand, I do know that coercive interrogations can lead detainees to provide false information in order to make the interrogation stop,” said Rockefeller, D-W.Va.

There also are concerns that the use of waterboarding would undermine U.S. human rights efforts overseas and could place Americans at greater risk of being tortured if they are captured abroad.

“The president’s refusal to sign this crucial legislation into law will undermine counterterrorism efforts globally and delay efforts to rebuild U.S. credibility on human rights,” said Elisa Massimino, Washington director for Human Rights First.

Bush objected to two other provisions:

_a new independent inspector general for the government’s intelligence agencies to improve coordination and information-sharing. Bush said the position was unnecessary.

_Senate confirmation of the directors of the National Security Agency and National Reconnaissance Office. Bush said that could delay the directors’ ability to take over quickly and risk injecting politics into the selection process.

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On the Net:

Bush’s veto message: http://tinyurl.com/ypxqnc

10 Responses to "Democrats upset with Bush’s waterboard veto"

  1. sherry  March 9, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    Democrats may be upset, but there are not enough votes to over ride. Why are they not going on every talk show denouncing, shaming their republican counterparts for not standing for America.

  2. Sandra Price  March 9, 2008 at 1:23 pm

    It was briefly discussed on CSPAN but not enough callers found this veto a bad thing. Americans are too apathetic to care about torture.

  3. sherry  March 9, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    That pretty much says it all, doesn’t it Sandra? The masses will rail against an immigration bill, but it’s perfectly ok to torture. The fact that is practice in a very real way puts our troops in further danger is lost on them. Are Americans just too stupid to connect the dots?

  4. SEAL  March 9, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    Considering the type of REAL torture the Iraqis have subjected our guys to, they deserve whatever we want to do to them in return. A little waterboarding is nothing compared to having your fingernails pulled out with pliers, the bottom of your feet beaten for hours, being burned alive and beheaded. That is the attitude most americans have.

    They do not understand or care about the importance of the message it sends to the rest of the world. Those people are beneath us anyway. They aren’t christian.

  5. JudyB  March 9, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    This veto should hit the tv shows on Monday since they usually tape weekend shows ahead of time. Most Americans are against torture being used no matter who is using it. GWB is famous for pulling a lot of his crap on Fridays or during weekends so only a handful of reporters can get the info out before Monday.

    As I’ve said many times before, most Americans are not well read and informed, other than the headlines they happen to read or hear. I consider myself well read and informed but learned of this veto just minutes ago as I’ve been too busy the past few days (entertaining house guests) to read, watch or listen to anything til now.

    GWB is keenly aware that his dismal economy is having a serious adverse affects on millions of American households, thus…decided to sign his veto as they are now busily engaged in desparately trying to make ends meet in their own lives, enduring what they consider to be their own financial torture. (something he has only heard of, however never personally experienced)

    Look for many more such actions on various and equally horrendous issues coming from him before he leaves office. (I can’t even imagine all damage he is capable of doing in this amount of time)

    As usual, both Sherry and Sandy were absolutely correct in their posts.

  6. Paolo  March 9, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    What part of “cruel and unusual punishments shall not be inflicted” is unclear?

    The Bush Administration has clearly violated the Constitution. There should be no need to pass a LAW to forbid water boarding. It clearly violates the supreme law of the land: the Constitution.

    Does this not constitute a “high crime” or at least a “misdemeanor?”

  7. griff  March 9, 2008 at 8:32 pm

    The Constitution and Bill of rights no longer exist or apply. The President is above Constitutional Law and International Law. The President is the “decider”, and that’s all you or anybody else needs to know.

  8. logicaldog  March 10, 2008 at 5:47 am

    It is really sad and stupid that it is only the “democrats” who are upset that Bush vetoed a bill to ban water boarding torture, surely this is the perfect example of what an ass— bush and his corrupt cronies are-we need a trip for bush and cheney to the Hague, how is he ANY different from a dozen despots and dictators around the world not the least of which are Saddam and Osama. We need Barack NOW? Sick of corrupt immoral repukes. Sick of fake morality and hypocracy, sick of bush-lite-McCain, warmongering womanizers. We need a real human being-MEDIA stop negative spin on Obama. Americans are sick of it. We deserve hope or all is lost.

  9. Steve Horn  March 10, 2008 at 8:18 am

    So congress should rise up and over ride his veto – drain the ink from the damn thing. Then SOMEONE in congress should have the courage to start down the road to kicking Bush out of office and putting him before the bar of justice like the criminal that he is – and by the way – bring along Rumsfeld and Cheney while you’re at it.

    But it won’t happen, concerned more about their own re-election than they are about the business of this nation PeLousy and her fellow Representatives will do, as has been the case since their election, nothing. The Senate, being absorbed in thier own re-election campaigs and the Presidential campaign will, in like fashion, continue to abuse this nation by doing nothing to stem the tide of madness that’s been rising every higher since January 2001.

    Peace

    Steve

  10. pollchecker  March 10, 2008 at 9:58 am

    Just remember that John McCain advised GW to veto this bill!

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