Cantor: Americans hate health bill

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor says the new health care law is getting in the way of job-creation and vows Republicans are committed to repealing it.

Cantor tells CBS‘s “The Early Show” the GOP isn’t retreating from its commitment to get rid of the law overhauling the health care system, even though Senate Democrats have made clear they would block a repeal there.

Cantor isn’t accepting a Congressional Budget Office analysis saying the new health care is likely to reduce the federal deficit by $143 billion this year. The Virginia Republican does say, instead, that the bill cost over a trillion dollars “and we do know it was full of budget gimmickry.” He argues that “most Americans don’t like the health care bill and know there’s a better way.”

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55 Responses to "Cantor: Americans hate health bill"

  1. woody188  January 6, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    It would be nice if we could stop calling this a health care law, since it’s really just an order by the government to buy insurance or face fines and jail time. Call it the “Insurance Coercion Law” or something more accurate.

    Had they really crafted a health care law similar to Canada’s, there probably would be lots of support for it by the general public. But as it stands, it’s just a rip off of the public and a hand-out to insurers. Talk about wealth transfer, only it’s transferring from the poor and middle class up to corporate insurance instead of what we typically see Republicans fearing.

    Let’s not mention those new 1099 reporting laws tucked away inside this monstrosity.

    I support repeal as should anyone that believes in our Constitution and our God given rights and liberties.

    • Almandine  January 6, 2011 at 7:02 pm

      Other interesting details…

      http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/11_Disease/110105.healthcare.bill.html

      • Guardhouse Lawyer  January 6, 2011 at 8:05 pm

        Each of those “interesting details” is a lie. On top of that the smear was written before the damned bill was passed.

        Your knee is jerking.

    • Guardhouse Lawyer  January 6, 2011 at 8:02 pm

      “. . . face fines and jail time”

      Show us. Show us in the statute where there are fines or jail time for not buying health insurance.

      • b mcclellan  January 6, 2011 at 10:01 pm

        Please supply said statute bereft of the word compliance, if you please. Thanks.

      • Almandine  January 6, 2011 at 10:57 pm

        Not having written the link in question, and not having chosen to look hard for it, I’ll concede the “jaiI time” penalty as probably incorrect… especially given that the criminal bankers who have put us in current financial harm won’t ever see the inside of the joint either. But a quick read of the following language that I copied directly from the Affordable Care Act indicates clearly the financial penalties (fines) that accrue to individuals who would flaunt the law. If you wish, I’ll copy the sections that relate to penalties for employers who choose not to provide health insurance coverage.

        ‘‘SEC. 5000A. REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.
        ‘‘(a) REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.—An applicable individual shall for each month beginning after 2013 ensure that the individual, and any dependent of the individual who is an applicable individual, is covered under minimum essential coverage for
        such month.

        ‘‘(b) SHARED RESPONSIBILITY PAYMENT.—
        ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—If an applicable individual
        fails to meet the requirement of subsection (a) for 1
        or more months during any calendar year beginning
        after 2013, then, except as provided in subsection (d),
        there is hereby imposed a penalty with respect to the
        individual in the amount determined under subsection (c).
        ‘‘(2) INCLUSION WITH RETURN.—Any penalty
        imposed by this section with respect to any month
        shall be included with a taxpayer’s return under
        chapter 1 for the taxable year which includes such
        month.
        ‘‘(3) PAYMENT OF PENALTY.—If an individual
        with respect to whom a penalty is imposed by this
        section for any month—
        ‘‘(A) is a dependent (as defined in section
        152) of another taxpayer for the other taxpayer’s
        taxable year including such month, such other
        taxpayer shall be liable for such penalty, or
        ‘‘(B) files a joint return for the taxable year
        including such month, such individual and the
        spouse of such individual shall be jointly liable
        for such penalty.
        ‘‘(c) AMOUNT OF PENALTY.—
        ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The penalty determined
        under this subsection for any month with respect to
        any individual is an amount equal to 1⁄12 of the
        aplicable dollar amount for the calendar year.
        ‘‘(2) DOLLAR LIMITATION.—The amount of the
        penalty imposed by this section on any taxpayer for
        any taxable year with respect to all individuals for
        whom the taxpayer is liable under subsection (b)(3)
        shall not exceed an amount equal to 300 percent the
        applicable dollar amount (determined without regard
        to paragraph (3)(C)) for the calendar year with or
        within which the taxable year ends.
        ‘‘(3) APPLICABLE DOLLAR AMOUNT.—For purposes
        of paragraph (1)—
        ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
        subparagraphs (B) and (C), the applicable dollar
        amount is $750.
        ‘‘(B) PHASE IN.—The applicable dollar
        amount is $95 for 2014 and $350 for 2015.
        ‘‘(C) SPECIAL RULE FOR INDIVIDUALS
        UNDER AGE 18.—If an applicable individual has
        not attained the age of 18 as of the beginning of
        a month, the applicable dollar amount with
        respect to such individual for the month shall be
        equal to one-half of the applicable dollar amount
        for the calendar year in which the month occurs.
        ‘‘(D) INDEXING OF AMOUNT.—In the case of
        any calendar year beginning after 2016, the
        applicable dollar amount shall be equal to $750,
        increased by an amount equal to—
        ‘‘(i) $750, multiplied by
        ‘‘(ii) the cost-of-living adjustment determined
        under section 1(f)(3) for the calendar year,
        determined by substituting ‘calendar year 2015’
        for ‘calendar year 1992’ in subparagraph (B) thereof….

        Enough?

        • b mcclellan  January 6, 2011 at 11:24 pm

          Thanks Al, though onus mine were not on you, I cast lure for GHL’s response..

          Where is that confounded Austin Ranter ?

          • Almandine  January 7, 2011 at 12:34 am

            Am fully aware, being a pescatorial predator, myself…
            in this case though it seems more like noodlin’

            Ranter has been away for quite some time.

        • Guardhouse Lawyer  January 7, 2011 at 6:40 am

          Not enough. YOU changed the word penalty to fine. Fines are imposed by courts. This is a tax penalty, against which you can get a tax credit by having insurance.

          No one is being forced to buy insurance. But if you don’t have insurance you have a higher tax burden.

          Right now (I think, though the law may have expired 12/31) you can reduce your income tax liability by adding insulation to your house. No one is making you buy insulation, but if you do you get it from a seller of insulation, not the government. Nothing different here. You have a tax (penalty) liability that you can get rid of by buying insurance from a private company. Your choice which you pay.

          If anything, this requirement, which I certainly do not deny exists, is an increase in taxes contrary to everyone’s promise not to raise taxes. It’s somewhat a matter of semantics, I admit, but anyone who does not buy insurance is going to pay a tax penalty, not a fine.

          I was particularly concerned about the statement that there would be jail terms. That’s just out and out bull crap, and the poster either knew or should have known that but posted it anyway.

          • Almandine  January 7, 2011 at 10:06 am

            Just get over yourself…

            Don’t buy it, pay the money. Call it what you will, cause it’s ALL the same… Financial Punishment.

            • Guardhouse Lawyer  January 7, 2011 at 1:33 pm

              “Just get over yourself…”

              And a big smooch to you, sweetie. If you don’t like the things I say just ignore them. But stop with the nastiness. It’s beneath the rest of us.

              • Almandine  January 7, 2011 at 2:10 pm

                Your knee is jerking.

          • logtroll  January 7, 2011 at 10:09 am

            Though this may be an increase in taxes, the CBO calculates that without it the deficit would rise significantly. An application to the bigger picture indicates that it is actually a decrease in long-term costs, which translates into less taxes (if we were really paying for what we are spending).

            I see that Boner’s counter to this news is that the CBO doesn’t know what it is talking about; that when he looks at the numbers they don’t add up. Unfortunately, he didn’t share his calculations for validation.

      • woody188  January 7, 2011 at 3:55 pm

        Here you go. I await your apologies GHL.

        • Guardhouse Lawyer  January 8, 2011 at 9:23 am

          You have got to be kidding me. You are putting forth a handwritten note to a Senator as proof that the Affordable Care Act provides jail sentences for people who refuse to purchase health insurance? You’re having me on, right?

          Here is the ACA, as certified correct by the GPO’s Superintendent of Documents:

          http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr3590enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr3590enr.pdf

          I did a series of searches:

          willful

          25,000

          misdemeanor

          7203

          jail

          I got no hits that had any relevance to failure to buy insurance.

          So I went to the Internal Revenue Code.

          Sure enough, section 7203 provides in pertinent part that:

          ” Any person required under this title to pay any estimated tax or
          tax, or required by this title or by regulations made under
          authority thereof to make a return, keep any records, or supply any
          information, who willfully fails to pay such estimated tax or tax,
          make such return, keep such records, or supply such information, at
          the time or times required by law or regulations, shall, in
          addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a
          misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more
          than $25,000 . . ..”

          YES! There it is. In black and white. Except you forgot one detail. The ACA says that the penalties shall not be treated as taxes, even though the payments are to be included when filing one’s tax return.

          No, you will not get an apology out of me until you prove to me that people who refuse or fail to comply with the minimum acceptable coverage provisions as cited above will be subject to a jail term. I believe you are incorrect in making that statement and you have provided nothing to prove to me that you are correct.

          • Almandine  January 8, 2011 at 11:59 am

            So the penalties are not taxes??? Hmmm, guess I’ll insulate the attic.

            • logtroll  January 8, 2011 at 12:12 pm

              There’s a good idea! Draft sealing and attic insulation are two of the easiest ways to avoid unnecessary expenses and reduce fossil fuel consumption. As my old buddy Kurt likes to say, “It’s five times cheaper to save a watt than to make a watt”.

              That also means that you get to keep more of your hard earned dollars, which could translate into working less and making less money so you could pay less in taxes!

              If you are like me, your entire life revolves around avoiding taxes, especially ones that may actually save money and pay for socially useful things.

              • Almandine  January 8, 2011 at 12:31 pm

                Yeah… and I was just making fun of ghl’s bloviation above.

                (Attic’s already done.)

                • Guardhouse Lawyer  January 8, 2011 at 1:09 pm

                  Yes, when one is unable to provide a convincing argument one merely has to denigrate the person on the other side of the debate. SO helpful to the discussion.

                  • Carl Nemo  January 8, 2011 at 2:46 pm

                    I have a queston for you GHL Your obsession with accuracy is admirable to a point, but as time has gone on, your ‘fanatical preoccupaton” with such has caused a yellow to emerging ‘Red’ alert on my behalf. / : |

                    Do you have an office in the White House sub-basement working with a group of “agent provocateurs” who’s task is to push ‘dear leader’s” nation-wrecking agendas no matter what the consequences?

                    I’m not advocating that inaccuracy concerning comments to this site should be condoned even using this current dispute as to whether there will be penalties or not concerning O-care as a prime example.

                    It’s 2700 pages of garbage, nation-crippling legislation, no ifs, ands or buts about it! There’s already several hundred ‘exemptions’ as a function of political cronyism to date meaning ‘some pigs are better than others’…no?

                    It will be the IRS’s responsibility to see that any sanctions against non-participants are carried out. Once a bill becomes law then it’s the faceless bureaucrats running these agencies along with the agency specific arcane clauses added to the tax code that will be no doubt including jail time once a case hits the “tax court” with an example to made of those for noncompliance.

                    There’s also the part of this law that will require 1099′s to be filed concerning transactions between vendors, suppliers and prime users of services if the amount exceeds $600 which is to be implemented in 2012. In other words there’s a plan to snoop into every aspect of the private business affairs of this nation down to the “chump change” level. Even IRS spokespersons have said they are concerned in that it will cripple their function in order to comply with O-care on this matter. Businesses are going to be damaged, by this blizzard of ‘schemed’ paperwork. Who decided to sneak such a nightmare into this bill and for what purposes other than it being symptomatic of a “broke-assed” government trying to shake down it’s citizens for ‘pocket change’?

                    Even laws launched by Congress that are simple in nature, possibly only a few hundred pages; will trigger an agency tasked to insure compliance, adding dozens if not hundreds of pages of in house byzantine regulations to enforce such; e.g., the U.S. Tax Code.

                    The smaller companies in this nation provide the greater portion of employment for its citizens. I’m going to supply a current link concerning the failure of such companies and to the sheer numbers that have failed since 2008 which can mostly be linked to the criminally disposed banking/insurance debacle which our government found no difficulty in shoring up in the face of the withering implications of criminality being the prime cause. Now our government plans to saddle smaller businesses with even more crippling rules and regulations while the large one’s get to skate on the taxpayers dime.

                    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Six-Companies-That-Did-Not-nytimes-3376907748.html?x=0

                    ***
                    In the first quarter of 2010, for example — the most recent period for which the data are available — there was a net loss of 96,000 companies with fewer than 100 employees, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. In 2009, the loss was 400,000 companies…extract from link material
                    ***

                    Do you think these smaller upstart companies with many having been in business prior to 2008 have the need for more government imposed “red tape” killing incentive thus squelching their ability to provide employment as a function of their entrepreneurialship? The recent clandestine passage of the so-called ‘Safe Food Act’ is another prime example requiring evermore government filings etc. The big guys will skate or pay the man for ‘exemptions’ while the little guys are crushed under the weight of evermore filings.

                    Seemingly our government is a modern era version of a :”Marx-Leninist” nightmare on the rise and soon on the march into our homes and places of business to shake us down for the last vestiges of our personal wealth, possibly our furniture, clothing and very lives too possibly with redistribution of such to illegal aliens.

                    Hopefully, this no doubt soon to fail experiment in neo-communism is soon to topple no different than the former Soviet Union in the 90′s. Maybe we’ll circumvent the bloody gulag era due to the fact our flash in the pan attempt at empire is soon to fail. : |

                    Carl Nemo **==

                    • Almandine  January 8, 2011 at 4:33 pm

                      Much obliged, Carl, as I find it difficult to have a “discussion” with this arrogant know-it-all. I can’t even remember when he started a civil, data-based conversation about anything… instead of bottom-feeding.

                      Good day, sir.

                    • logtroll  January 8, 2011 at 7:27 pm

                      Fyi, the 1099 bs is already on the chopping block according to my two pinkassed liberal senators, two rosy nation destroying congresscritters, and one fresh teabagging representative. Courtesy of concerned citizens who raised their concerns through regular political channels.

                      Try not to be so crazy paranoid, eh? It may be counterproductive.

                    • logtroll  January 8, 2011 at 9:21 pm

                      BTW, why are you guys all afraid of Guardhouse Lawyer? I think he’s less of an asshole than most of us, and generally better informed.

                      Only a poosy would counter another CHB post by accusing the writer of arrogance and overabundance of ego. Posting here is all about roostering and sniffing necks; name calling is what you do just before you turn tail and run.

                      BWAAWK!!

                  • Almandine  January 8, 2011 at 4:47 pm

                    “If you don’t like the things I say just ignore them.”

                    You can’t have it both ways.

                    • b mcclellan  January 8, 2011 at 8:19 pm

                      5/32 – 6011 all position, 9018 low hydrogen cap.
                      Melding minds have many welded rhymes whist the media rings her chimes.
                      Having no control nor invitation might I add, the subject matter has little origins here,
                      as our foreign policy is just that, foreign domestic,
                      at home..

                      Herein lies the bite.
                      Do we have enough geologic history of a so called upper or lower crust totally excluding us from thinking ?

                      Pop said,
                      Work is mans best insurance,
                      did you grease the buzz saw yet ?

                    • Almandine  January 9, 2011 at 12:30 am

                      As always… Bryan, a mellow reflection.

  2. Carl Nemo  January 6, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    I distrust the system so much in these end times for the Republic, that I wouldn’t be surprised that when the rethugs get done ‘repealing’ said law that it will become an enhanced “nightmare in spades”… : |

    Carl Nemo **==

    • logtroll  January 8, 2011 at 12:17 pm

      So sorry to hear of your sad end times, Cap’n. Good thing that for every ending there’s a beginning so’s some of us have something to do besides wringing our hands on the daily walk down to the corner St*rbucks.

  3. KerriK  January 6, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    Let Cantor repeal the Health Care bill at the same time as they repeal health coverage for the Senate and House!

  4. b mcclellan  January 6, 2011 at 11:50 pm

    Get yoself some aspirin, quit eatin shi#, any fund raiser will tell you that.
    Bull along, life’s a dollar bill , catch as catch can.
    The arrogance makes me misty.
    How many eyes are blinkin now in disbelief ?

  5. griff  January 7, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    I don’t have to read even one page of this monstrosity to know in no uncertain terms that this will lead to higher costs, higher taxes, reduction in quality, longer waits, not to mention a whole lotta death.

    It will also be a boon for the medical industry (aside from doctors), lobbyists, pot-bellied bureacrats, and the insurance industry.

    How do I know all this withyout reading any of it? Because that’s what we do best…rape and kill.

  6. dvl666  January 7, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Well now there hey…How are dose Death Panels working out in AZ? We now know what GOP Health Care = death if ya ain’t got enough insurance. I guess “grizzley moms eat their young.”

  7. logtroll  January 7, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Hmmm… Do I believe griff and Boner? or the CBO? griff and Boner? CBO? Yer really making this difficult for me to make up my mind.

    Is the Gummit the problem, or the corporations that own the Gummit?

    I can see how one could conclude that neither is the best monarch of the healthcare “industry”, but I really can’t get the logic that the Gummit is the worse of the two.

    • griff  January 7, 2011 at 6:01 pm

      They are one in the same, aren’t they? I made no such distinction in my post. Every one should know by now that the lobbyists write the bills, and then bribe the politicians to pass them. Neither is worse than the other, it’s more of a symbiotic relationship. Mussolini referred to it as Fascism.

      • logtroll  January 7, 2011 at 7:24 pm

        I see the appeal for oversimplifying reality — it makes maintaining an ideology much easier. And if you can create a worldview where all the problems are simultaneously the fault of “others” whom it is impossible to control, then one can enjoy being not responsible AND lazy all at once.

        Perfecto!

        As for me, I think that corporate influence is large and largely evil, but I don’t believe that they have total and irrevocable control over our government. Sorry, can’t do the helpless victim ideology thing with y’all.

        • griff  January 7, 2011 at 9:38 pm

          So now political commentary, criticizing the government and the way they do business, the way they “represent” us, is akin to being a helpless victim. Not only helpless, but lazy and irresponsible. Okay, Chief. Gotcha!

          I don’t have a job or any thing silly like that. I don’t pay my taxes either (which of course gives me every god damned right to criticize this government and how they spend my money). I don’t read 2 or 3 books a month either. Just a lazy, irresponsible, helpless layabout, am I.

          I don’t write, pass or sign these bills into law, so surely it has to be some one’s fault other than mine. I even went so far as to call my “representatives” and urged them to vote against. For all the good it did.

          • logtroll  January 7, 2011 at 9:47 pm

            So… got any good ideas about things that can actually be done? You seem to be stuck in a corner. Just make sure that the stuck and the map of the corner aren’t slaves to an unworkable ideology, that’s all I’m saying.

            • griff  January 7, 2011 at 10:59 pm

              I don’t subscribe to any real ideology, If I had to apply a label to myself, it sure as hell wouldn’t be a “D” or an “R”, if that’s what you’re getting at.

              I’ve been here a while. I’ve pretty much given up on offering any real solutions. Been there, done that. Once in a while, when the mood strikes. Beating my head against the wall isn’t my favorite pastime.

              So for now, I think I rather enjoy mocking the Hill People.

              But since you asked, I’ll throw you a bone…End the Fed. That in itself would virtually end inflation and the boom-bust cycles we’ve been experiencing since its inception.

              As for this subject matter, healthcare is a complicated issue. The first priority for me would not be to force every one into an overpriced and ineffective system, but find out why we’re so damned sick that we need constant medical care from cradle to grave.

              This is just so laughable to me I don’t even know where to start. Toxic food, toxic water, and a toxic environment are the three main reasons for why we’re such a sickly society.

              Microwaves were banned in Russia from 1976 until 1988 based on research that began in 1956. Walk through any office building arouond lunchtime, and that’s all you hear is Ding! Ding! Ding!

              How about an insurance plan that actually covers or partially covers things that actually promote health, such as vitamin and mineral supplements, or in some ways offers discounts or rebates for people that don’t use it?

              When I had health insurance we were paying some $6000 per year for 3 people for some thing we almost never used, other than my son’s and wife’s routine physicals. I haven’t been to a doctor in 15 years (I’m 42), and that’s only because I broke my collarbone and two ribs crashing my motocross bike.

              It amazes me that people go to the doctor for things like colds and flus.

              How about banning GMO foods? There’s not only significant evidence that GMO foods casue serious health problems, but they also seem to be responsible for bee colony collapse. No bees, no food. Scientists can not figure out how to pollenate plants artificially.

              • logtroll  January 8, 2011 at 10:20 am

                Are you working on any of these things, or is this merely perseveration subject matter? Your “good ideas” seem a bit large in scope for significant individual action, unless one is part of a group movement. Around here we have a sustainable foods network, a “buy local” campaign, manufacturing from recycled materials, a budding local investment group, solar infrastructure repowering, a collaborative business cluster with an incubator…

                These are some things that we “do” in my community. I’ll admit that if the trucks stopped running, we’d still be in a world of hurt. But that is not a reason to avoid doing things to change the paradigm, to change attitudes, and to prepare for the change that we cannot avoid by simply living the way we think is correct.

                Narrowly focusing on macro issues (well-spiced with imaginary extremes) that you can’t really affect is what I mean as your ideology. Not seeing that every problem needs a solution and declining to personally work to create solutions is what I mean by laziness. “Woe is me” and “Those bastards are screwing us” is just fingernails on the blackboard. Surely you can do better than that?

                • Almandine  January 8, 2011 at 1:03 pm

                  You, sir, have indeed hit the wall here. If there’s one thing that will not be tolerated, it is action. Ours is merely to bitch about the status – or quid pro – quo, taking ever finer pot shots at those who fail us. Perseveration of the highest order… until one realizes that s/he’s already said ALL the same things before and mercifully moves on to lesser rants, noting the inconsistencies in our mates’ thought patterns, and linking to other articles in far-flung media that support our individual reasoning and ideals.

                  Those leaning to the left crow: you conservatives have been brainwashed by Rush, Hannity, Rove, et al, and have become the meanest self-serving bastards on the planet. Those tacking to the right know quite clearly that it’s Olbermann, Maddow, and Matthews that have crapped in the grey matter of the liberals, who would steal them blind to fund the dismantling of our capitalist republic.

                  In fact, to whatever degree the people here regurgitate anything those media folk have said is because of them seeking media outlets of similar mindset to validate and reaffirm their own biases. Warm and fuzzy is the name of the game… action is verboten.

                • griff  January 8, 2011 at 8:50 pm

                  And of course, you miss my point entirely, apparently because you’re too busy stroking your own ego.

                  The system doesn’t work because it’s not designed to cure people of their illnesses, it’s designed to make every one lifelong customers. Like any other industry, no?

                  • logtroll  January 8, 2011 at 9:14 pm

                    I must admit, I didn’t quite get the gist of Al’s response to you, griff. I thought it was a satirical post and to brush him off by saying he’s just stroking his ego does not seem to be a relevant comeback.

                    I think accommodating big egos is a given on CHB, in any case, and throwing that one down is like saying “shit happens”.

                    Incidently, I do not share your absolutist position that the system doesn’t work. Agreed, it’s never been perfect (it does have people like you and me to deal with, after all), but it does sometimes respond to honest efforts to participate.

                    Of course, if your strategy is to not participate, then your are pretty much guaranteed to come out a loser. But being a loser doesn’t prevent you from stroking your ego, you just have to depend more upon your imagination…

                    • Carl Nemo  January 8, 2011 at 9:48 pm

                      “thought it was a satirical post”…extract from reply

                      “I think accommodating big egos is a given on CHB” …extract from reply

                      You don’t seem to realize as yet that commentary to CHB along with support by its regular participants is serious business.

                      There’s no satire or big ego’s here. We’re about as grass-roots as you can get shored up by our native intelligence when it comes to supporting Constitutional principles and the need for the unfettered enjoyment of life, liberty and the ever important “pursuit of happiness” that seems to be a forgetten element in these end times for the Republic.

                      From your writings, I bellieve you live in Idaho…no? It’s cold there and insulation is a “big deal”. I’m into insulaton too, but for a different focus; ie., insulating against damp, ongoing 40 degree maritime night induced, penetrating, cold temps. The warmth of wood heat drives the dampness from a dwelling like no other, rather than the ‘feast or famine’ heat provided by thermostat controlled systems.

                      We burn wood exclusively in our home. I have two woodstoves although generally only using one. Yes, I do have a main forced-air heat circulating system. I generally keep 8-10 cords on hand for ‘emergencies’. Most of my career I had to deal with the ever relentless whine of equipment, relays and other such audible aggravations coupled through metal. I loathe “noise” in my retirement years. Silence is truly golden… : )

                      Wood heat is my friend, but superior insulation is one better…no? It’s said that with proper insulation one could heat their dwelling with simply the flame of a candle.

                      Don’t analyze CHB too deeply. Hopefully we’re all friends in thought and a common purpose here. We collectively loathe despotism and collective systems of government.

                      We enjoy the common ‘heat’ of our shared thoughts…no?

                      Carl Nemo **==

                    • Almandine  January 9, 2011 at 12:17 am

                      Evidently, you didn’t get my post at all Troll, because my response was to you, not Griff. He and I almost always see eye to eye. Sorting wheat from chaff is not our problem.

                      As for the system working in your – our – favor… even minimally ??? Check the worth of your money for starters…

                    • Almandine  January 9, 2011 at 12:19 am

                      BTW – he brushed YOU off, not me…

                    • logtroll  January 9, 2011 at 8:40 am

                      Re: “BTW – he brushed YOU off, not me…”

                      He’s such a cad!

                    • logtroll  January 9, 2011 at 8:47 am

                      Re: “Check the worth of your money for starters…”

                      As I have tried to explain before, money is an abstraction; it’s worth is, and always has been, variable and whimsical.

                      Do you find it odd that humans are the only species that even uses the concept of money, and that we psychotically come to value it more than life?

                    • Almandine  January 9, 2011 at 12:53 pm

                      Yes, the value of money is variable, but not whimsical… or so it seems to my grocer. Money is a shared token of value.

                      It doesn’t seem to me so odd, in an ecological sense, that only humans use such tokens, because humans have a superior ability to form logical thought and relational language, relative to “lesser” species. However, there are behavioral studies that show some lesser animals can understand the concept of value and can use externally-defined tokens of value in a monetary sense. Maybe the difference is that they aren’t stupid enough to accept fiat money as if it actually had intrinsic value.

    • woody188  January 7, 2011 at 4:04 pm

      Yep, the only way it would increase deficits is if they are using Obamacare revenue in the general fund, which I said they would do, just like Social Security. Obamacare is all about keeping the government afloat just another year or two so they can have that additional time to finish bringing in their regional North American government.

  8. bogofree  January 8, 2011 at 9:44 am

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_health_care_reform

    Here is the Wiki summary of the Massachusetts Health Care Reform. The goal was to have coverage for virtually everyone and contain costs. Coverage is there but cost control is not. This is the supposed blueprint for national legislation and should be the template for what will happen nationally. Follow what happens here.

  9. b mcclellan  January 8, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    Fear not the meticulous,
    but welcome.
    The mast head cries .
    Group therapy at it’s best.

    Not a good day in Arizona.

  10. griff  January 9, 2011 at 10:00 am

    “Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.” – Plato

  11. logtroll  January 9, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Some people quote Plato for no apparent reason, though self-applicability may be an assumed context?

    Which will it be…? Is you is, or is you ain’t _______ (fill in the blank).

    “I post, therefore I is”. — Gordo

    • Almandine  January 9, 2011 at 1:01 pm

      Ask the Zebra…

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