Most Americans rate Congress low on ethics

Gallup poll

For the first time in Gallup’s annual Honesty and Ethics of Professions poll, a majority of Americans — 55% — say the honesty and ethical standards of “members of Congress” are low or very low — slightly worse than “senators,” whose ethics are rated low by 49%. By contrast, 83% of Americans say nurses have either very high or high ethical standards, positioning them at the top of Gallup’s 2009 ranking of various professions.

The percentage of Americans now believing that members of Congress have low ethics is up from 46% in 2008 and 45% in 2007, and has more than doubled since the start of the decade — rising from 21% in November 2000 to 55% today.

A similar pattern occurred in the early 1990s, spanning a series of scandals starting with the “Keating Five” and the related savings and loan crisis, the House banking scandal, and the House post office scandal that resulted in the conviction of Rep. Dan Rostenkowski in 1996. However the percentage “low”/”very low” rating during that period topped out at 46% in 1995, lower than today’s figure. For most of the past two decades, more Americans have typically said the ethical standards of members of Congress are low than have called them high. However, the spread between these two views is now the widest seen.

The deterioration in Congress’ ethics rating over the past year has occurred about equally among all three party groups. The percentage rating members’ honesty and ethical standards as low or very low rose by 8 points among Republicans and independents, and by 10 points among Democrats.

Pharmacists, Doctors, Police, and Engineers Also Well Regarded

Nurses are the undisputed leader in this year’s list of professions — and have ranked No. 1 all but one year since they were added to the list in 1999 (“firefighters” was asked as a special item in November 2001, and ranked first in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks). In addition to nurses, pharmacists, medical doctors, police, and engineers are all well regarded for their honesty and ethics by more than 6 in 10 Americans. Additionally, dentists, college teachers, and members of the clergy earn high marks from at least half of Americans.

Gallup poll resultsAside from members of Congress, the only other occupational group that the majority of Americans see as having low or very low honesty and ethical standards is car salespeople. At least 40% of Americans perceive several other professions as having low integrity, including senators, stockbrokers, HMO managers, insurance salespeople, and lawyers. Still, it should be noted that two professions not included on the list this year — telemarketers and lobbyists — received even lower ratings in 2008 (60% and 64% “poor” ethics ratings, respectively) than members of Congress do today.

The full list of 22 professions included on this year’s list is ranked according to the percentage of Americans rating each profession’s integrity as “very high” or “high.”

Bottom Line

Congress has long ranked among the worst-rated professions on Gallup’s annual Honesty and Ethics of Professions list. Now, it has earned the unwelcome distinction of having a majority of Americans rate its integrity as low or very low.

Americans are deeply concerned about the nation’s economy, and eager to see the nation’s leaders find meaningful solutions to that and other problems. But it’s not clear that Congress’ perceived lack of success is entirely to blame for its poor integrity ratings. While Congress has low job approval, the 26% of Americans currently approving is higher than the 19% recorded about this time last year. However, over the same period, Americans’ rating of Congress’ honesty and ethics, rather than showing analogous improvement, has in fact worsened, and not just among Republicans.
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18 Responses to "Most Americans rate Congress low on ethics"

  1. hologram5  December 21, 2009 at 11:32 am

    It’s about time that people see these crooked people for what they really are.  They are nothing more than used car/snake oil salesmen.  They always have been.  I can honestly say this as I vote Independant every election because I am tired of the lies and half truths.

     

    To Boldly Go… Anywhere there is sanity…

  2. Carl Nemo  December 18, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    “Congress has long ranked among the worst-rated professions on Gallup’s annual Honesty and Ethics of Professions list. Now, it has earned the unwelcome distinction of having a majority of Americans rate its integrity as low or very low.” …extract from article

    They shouldn’t be shocked or surprised because most Congressmen are lawyers too… / : |

    What’s interesting is that although many folks rate their Congressmen low on ethics, they continually send them back to D.C. to screw them over again and again. 

    Brian Baird my 3rd Congressional District rep has been camped in D.C. for six two year terms.  He claims that he’s not running again in 2010.  Good riddance as far as I’m concerned.  Folks have been upset with him for quite some time, but they sent him back to Congress in 2008 and this nonsense goes on and on across America. 

    I’m a naturally friendly guy and am able to open conversations about politics and the state of affairs with folks when I’m in Starbucks or places that people gather.  I make it a point not to be overbearing or back off if I feel that folks are uncomfortable with my line of discussion.  Guess what folks?!  I’m not impressed with my cross sectional sampling of the average citizen and their knowledge base concerning the issues or the performance of their Congressman.  Most don’t even know who their Congressman is; ie., meaning they don’t vote either!

    CHB happens to be a watering hole where people that take pride in researching issues come to discuss them on this forum as well as RR.

    Most of the  John Q. citizens eyes glaze over if you begin to discuss anything with depth or complexity.  America is full of spoiled Billy Bobs and Marys who couldn’t care less about politics or where there nation is headed.  They’d rather discuss “Black Friday” sales, game outcomes, current ‘scandals’ and other such nonsense rather than focus on issues that are affecting their lives.  These people are getting the government they so surely and sorely deserve.

    Carl Nemo **==

      

  3. bogofree  December 18, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    Nemo’s second paragraph was enough to get me started.

    In Massachusetts we recently had the selection process take place for the seat of Ted Kennedy. Out of the six candidates five were lawyers and it only gets worse – four were from Harvard Law School.

    I enjoy the works of the late Douglas Adams and in one of his books there is a small excerpt about a planet wide evacuation. All the citizens have placed the lawyers on a group of ships and sent them in the opposite direction of everyone else.

    Now this certainly is lawyer trashing on my part and I could care less. The law schools started to churn these folks out in droves in the 70s with nothing much to do except litigate mountains of foolishness and work for various government agencies writing the incomprehensible for the rest of us.

    Now I am sure some of the legal folks peruse this site and will become rather protective of their turf. Spare me all the “good” things lawyers have accomplished as IMHO they represent the micro millimeter compared to the negative.

    Willy Shakespeare was right.

  4. Sandra Price  December 19, 2009 at 11:59 am

    The American voter base is not constitutionally savvy.  They see the government as a watering hole for free things.  I have found that in the last 20 years the voters are not particularly ethical.  They see the banks and wall street making money for everyone else.  It amazes me how eager the voters, in general and CHB in particular, voice a desire to control the corporations.  Who is to do the controls?  The government!!! 

    The voters have lost interest in politics and there is nothing anyone can do to clean it up.  You may not like it Carl and Griff but this lack of interested started when television became the center of the family circle.  Once the churches got their money from the government in 2000 they also dumbed down the voters. 

    Taking money not earned from people against their will is the ultimate insult.  We have made the weakest civilization possible in the last 200 years right here at home.  We send poorly prepared kids to the ivy league schools where they learn how to use others.  If those kids knew right from wrong instinctivly, they would not use what they learned.  Don’t blame Harvard, Yale or any of the high end universities.  The kids have no ethics when they arrive and only learn how to do it legally.  This scam called Heath Care will take money from the wealthy and give to the poor and right away a level of society is formed.  There is no health care involved except the fight against abortions.  But only women will suffer from illegal abortion and that is of little interest to the American people. Most of you are too young to remember the knitting needle tricks that killed many women.

    Watch television on how to screw others and get laughs and our society is clearly explained.  The churches want money on a regular basis and they are not exposing their congregations to Christian values.  The bills that the churches handed to the government after Katrina demanding the government pay for the work of the churches.  This is considered American values. 

    I find many here annoying as hell because everything wrong is the fault of everyone else.  I’ve pissed off many here and I shake my head at the assumption that my opinions are not only wrong but worthy of insult.  In my world, freedoms must be earned.  Americans have no clue what it is they are throwing away.  No, it is not the fault of Obama or McCain or Clinton or the Bushes.  We elected those abusers and we would again if we went by the television and the churches. 

    Yes, Shakespeare knew it all along when he said “To thine ownself be true” 

    Every two years freedoms are laughed at as most people believe it means we can yell abuses in public…as long as it does not touch Jesus Christ.  I will continue to work for the Separation of Church and State but not here.  You will consider it a militant move against the churches.  It is not!  But someone in church or on the television says it it.  The head of our organization is a Lutheran Minister named Barry Lynn.   The media needs the church to support their point of view and governmnt needs the votes.  Follow the money.  America is doomed in selfishness. 

    We saw the same thing in 1963 and we organized from coast to coast to get a new government in power.  We had no radio jocks, we had no media behind us and we did it in having meetings in our homes and fortunate enough to have Hollywood stars on our side.  We came damn close until the Republican party drove us into the ground as it would mean a loss of their power. 

    I don’t think a new movement could get through the attitude of CHB.  It is easier to blame than to fix.  I’m winding down and am trying very hard to not give a damn. 

     

    Sandy

     

     

  5. griff  December 19, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    So the 2000-plus page healthcare bill is all about abortions? I don’t know where you get your analysis from, but it’s entirely wrong. There is no language I know of that will make abortions illegal, and it’s preposterous for you to advance that idea.

    The fight is over government funding. I would think your small-government, personal responsibility, personal liberty mindset would at least understand the underlying argument, if not endorse it. After all, isn’t your insistence of personal responsibility and personal morality in direct contrast with the idea that the government should be responsible for correcting the mistake of some one getting themselves pregnant?

    Coat hanger abortions in back alleys as a result of the government not funding abortions? Government funding isn’t available now, so where do you get that idea? And I don’t see where this bill will transfer money from the rich to the poor, but vice versa. The Democrats are the ones pushing for government funding.

    You complain that our kids aren’t taught right from wrong, yet you demonize Christians for attempting to teach their kids that very thing. The problem doesn’t stem from religion per se, but high-level religious figures on the government rolls and the partisan system itself for misrepresenting and using these beliefs toward a political end.

    I don’t know of any one here that is advocating government control of corporations. At least not myself and Carl; and I would challenge you to cite some examples. My position has always been that the People have the power to control corporations by refusing to support them. After all, we make their very existence possible.

    Unfortunately through government favoritism and our monopoly-capitalistic system, the eradication of the free market and corporate takeover of almost all industry in this country, we have little free choice in deciding what we buy or who we buy it from.

    As far as movements are concerned, I had no idea this was the place for such a thing. Surely I don’t remember signing on to any movement when I registered. If you find this site and its participants to be so annoying, than by all means feel free to extract yourself from this den of vipers. When it comes to attitude, yours is one of the most abrasive and intolerant of other’s opinions, not to mention even partially understanding them.

    Not everyone sees the world through your omniscient prism, so please forgive us all for not being the absolute authorities on everything that you are.  

     

     

  6. Doug Thompson  December 20, 2009 at 11:43 pm

     

    If this makes me out of your league, you have a problem.

    Sandy:

    I cannot, and I will not, tolerate these kinds of attacks on other members of CHB.

     

  7. Sandra Price  December 20, 2009 at 6:42 am

    Read up on American Enterprise Institute.  Read up as if someone else suggested it.  My suggestions are not valid to either of you.  AEI was the founder of neoconservativism and the great one world order Empire.  Read a little of Irving Kristol and dig into his agenda.  They had/have nothing to do with the Lobbyists.  Read into why the lobbyists were legally allowed to meet in a hotel close to the capital.  They keep an eye on the government law makers.  This works when the Congress uses ethics in their laws.  The Congress is extremely flawed.  Why blame the lobbyists? 

    You have been taught that Lobbyists are the main source of corruption and gents, you are wrong!  You will never accept the responsibility that the voters have no ethical values and will elect corruption as long as they get their freebies. 

    The average American has no clue about the oath of office taken by their candidates.  The average American has no intention of defining an oath of fidelity to their own families.  It shows in the divorce rates that are now 51%.  When I have an opinion of ethics and it does not agree with yours, I am not out of my league.  I am simply in the minority.

    I do not judge the ethics of anyone but it is disturbing to see how quickly Americans refuse to accept the responsibility of working for integrity in the government or in the home. 

    Science does not skip over research to search for the reasons we accept such a corrupt government.  Science first eliminates the fat of conspiracy issues before searching for truth and reason over superstition. 

    I blame my own generation for not cleaning up the terrorism that came from D.C.  We learned how to go under a table when the commies attacked.  Then we learned that we all would go to hell unless we spent time and money in the churches.  When 911 hit, we had no personal substance to pull us out of the massive depression.  Islam became the new terrorism, and fed by the American Enterprise Institute it has led us in unending wars. 

    It is time the voters took the initiative to smarten up and look at all our lives with reason, not terror. 

    Carl, you and Griff are in the majority in America and on CHB.  It does not make you correct.  I’m used to this on the internet.  On a past forum, it was Ron G and Issodhos who claimed that I was absolutely and positively  wrong. 

    We have different opinions because we have different sources of information.  We have different backgrounds and cultures.  I discovered my individual freedoms years before most as there was no television media to brainwash me.  I became an addicted book worm as I was puzzled why so many of my age group wanted to hand over to the government their own choices.  I grew up without a holy ghost scaring the crap out of me.  I had my kids at home for the first 5 years of their lives and trained them in survival as individuals.  My own mother and grandmother thought I was the daughter of Satan. 

    My kids survived 6 years of Christian school, 6 years of secular schools and 4 years of U.C. Berkeley.  No television, but more books than they could ever consume. 

    I don’t just want individual freedoms, I vote for representatives who will work for them.  If this makes me out of your league, you have a problem. 

     

    Sandy

  8. griff  December 20, 2009 at 11:52 am

    Since you’ve failed to offer any concrete examples for your repeated, unwarranted, and baseless attacks on both my political positions and my personal ideals, I’ve taken the liberty to research some of my past remarks and post them below, straight from the pages of this very site…

    January 29, 2008

    We rail against the hypocrisy of politics, yet we are forever transfixed by its shiny appearance and delusions of grandeur.

    We are herded into groups to squabble endlessly over superficial and petty differences, never actually asking whether we should even be having the conversation in the first.

    We never seek the advice of The Founders. They are shunned and considered irrelevant. These men brought about the greatest form of government ever created. We have allowed ourselves to be distracted, and it was stolen from under our noses.

    February 8, 2008

     Politics is a joke. Elections are a fraud. And we have no one to blame but ourselves.

    I choose not to blame, but to try to initiate change.

    February 14, 2008

    Of course, then came the media. Since then society has been engineered; automated, if you will, into the hypnotized and mesmerized, medicated masses that we are today.

    We are so easily controlled and manipulated by the media. We have been conditioned and propagandized to the point where honest debate is shunned in favor of shoutfests and reality TV. Where ad hominem attacks are standard fare for “debate shows” because people are too stupid to handle real debate about real issues.

    We have fallen asleep at the wheel, and are careening toward the cliffs of history without so much as an airbag. Our system is a farce, our media is nothing more than social engineers, and we are literally being subliminally herded to the sacrificial altar of global feudalism.

     This election cycle has turned into a battle for the bragging rights to our demise. Like being on death row and having the privilege of choosing our own executioner.

    February 21, 2008

    We rely on a medical establishment to coax us through life and make us hope for miracles. In the meantime they treat us to death and milk us of our savings.

    February 23, 2008

    He stood in debates before the Establishment and showed them the folly of their ways. He was viciously attacked and criminally ignored his own party. He is a true leader, not a manufactured automaton spewing focus group fodder for the eager masses.

    But I digress. We The People aren’t allowed to solve our own problems. That’s the problem. When a candidate comes along and suggests that very solution…well, we have all seen what happens to that candidate.

    February 24, 2008

    The political system, much like the medical system, is designed to “treat” the disease, not cure it.

    I would almost agree that The People are the problem, but we have been conditioned to demand that the government be our savior.

    The government has proven to be ineffective, at the least. Criminally negligent and hopelessly corrupt would be more accurate. We are distracted by partisan politics and superficial arguments.

    And then we go back to sleep until the next election, and then take up the same positions and the same arguments all over again.

    March 18, 2008

    This government has become so obviously anti-American that I can’t even express myself coherently. I am truly dumbfounded, but at the same time I am in complete understanding of how it’s happened.

    I have maintained a quiet and small sliver of – dare I say, hope – that enough people will wake up and rise in time to stop this blatantly obvious destruction.

    I won’t make that mistake again.

    July 31, 2009

    They will continue the fighting until the populace grows weary and accepts anything and everything.

    The object is to confuse and contradict, wear us down with endless debate over bad policy on both sides, until a “compromise” is reached and the American People are screwed once again.

    June 23, 2009

    I think the main problem we have is that we expect the government to step in and solve problems that a free market is more than capable of solving.

    April 3, 2009

    Funny how that works, yes? You can’t simply be opposed to one side without being automatically pigeonholed into the other. Independent thought is dangerous, the work of terrorists and miscreants.

    March 30, 2009

    “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always followed by dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been two-hundred years. These nations have progressed throught this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to abundance; from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back again into bondage.” – Alexander Fraser Tyler, 1700

    March 19, 2009

    Ron Paul – the falling tree in the empty forest that is the United States Congress, once again, as he does on a weekly basis, stood on the floor of the House of Representatives and – I hate this phrase but I’m going to use it this once – spoke truth to power.

    What was intended to be the power anyway. Your power and my power.

    That power has been systematically neutered, removed, or delegated away. We went to sleep or went shopping, and a quick glance at the national debt should pretty much let you know which option most of us took. Actually it’s more like we sleep-shopped. And whatever you do, don’t wake a sleep-shopper!

    Well the sleep-shoppers have been ruthlessly jolted awake, and have no idea what’s happened. Their public servants have become their owners; greedy, sniveling, corrupt little taskmasters. And they’re mad!

     

     

     

     

  9. Carl Nemo  December 20, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    “Carl, you and Griff are in the majority in America and on CHB.” ..extract from post

    Ms. Price, I find it interesting in that in some your earlier posts you feat the members of CHB as being somthing special in terms of their thought processes etc., but little by little over the past several weeks an ugly side to your persona has surfaced. 

    You are posturing yourself as some kind of intellectual snob when in reality you are…?! :-/

    With such attitudes beginning to spill out of your seabag, it’s my suggestion you turn in your resignation to Mr. Thomspon as a rebirthed editorialist and make your exit asap as you’ve promised numerous times.

    Although we have differences in opinion which makes for interesting site content, it’s not good taste to use other posters names or engage in blanket indictments against site members concerning their actions or thoughts.

    Doug has warned us all about this behavior and I’ve overstepped myself on occasion, pulling myself back on course; ie., obeying Captain’s orders.

    We can’t bludgeon each other into submission by escalating the vitriol of our posts. It can only escalate matters thus cheapening site content.

    Carl Nemo **==

     

     

     

  10. Sandra Price  December 19, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    Many private organizations like Planned Parenthood who thrive on tax free donations and government involvement are the greatest source of abortions in America today.In part of that 2000 page document the government is not to allow even private insurance companies to handle the payment of abortions.  The only Republican group that I belong to is the Republican majority for choice.  They hired several lobbyists to keep an eye on much of what passes in the hands of the house and senate.  I get a lot of information from this group that started out in California and has now gone national.  I just received a packet from the Americans United for the Separation of Church and State and the membership has jumped enormously just since Obama was elected.  They have their contacts in D.C. (lobbyistsd) and keep very involved in this backlash of crap called our government. 

    I had my kids in Christian School for 6 years and they were taught how to ask for forgiveness so they could be saved.  Right vs wrong was not possible because all humans are sinners and must know how to get out of trouble.  This is not what I had expected but that is what I got.  I see devout Christians around me daily who lie, cheat and steal all in the name of J.C.  But I have no interest in their false morality as long as they keep it out of the government. 

    I blame this religious influence on the voters that has removed all instincts of individual values.  It is exactly where bigotry and hypocrisy comes from.  The influence of destroying Muslims because their clerics and leaders like Bush/Rove and Cheney demanded that we label our enemies as evil and destroy them.  Hell, I’ve heard this in so many churches that I steered my kids away from it but explained it is part of their value judgments.  I have no hatred for Muslims and have always felt the Crusades were as dangerous a group then just about any army. 

    I listened to every word in Bush 43’s campaign and saw the same insanity that came to Europe during the Inquisitions.  He wanted to save America from the Revelations in the bible.  He worked very hard to get us into the Middle East for the oil that is necessary to maintain armies and ammunitions.  It was what he was born to do.  He did this to save America from hell.  His plans were to invade Iraq but after 911 he knew damned well Iraq had nothing to do with 911.  He manipulated his Christian followers to understand why we as Americans have to destroy the Muslim world.  I was told not to discuss this here at Reader Rant.  I was called a foolish conspirator and I replied that the entire Christian movement was a conspiracy to bring people into a state of terror and easily brought into the government.  I had information on this from several very realiable sources and I could not bring them here. 

    It’s being exposed on its own but too late for the American people to realize they have been had.  I do not consider America a free nation as our citizens have been brainwashed into such a terrorizing believe in a monster god.  I did some research during my absense from Reader Rant and joined up with some Evangelicals when I lived on the Colorado River.  My life was threatened and someone rammed a bull dozer into the side of my home.  It was signed with a fish.  I had only lived there a year and moved as quickly as possible.  It was vandalism so I had to pay for the repair.  I had no neighbors on the hill and nobody said a word about the damage.  I was there when 911 hit and I saw the ugly side of what Bush was behind.  I have no doubts that he was mentally deranged with his religion.  Again I come from a large family of born agains and I never got involved but this was our federal government and I slowly watched the horrendous programs that removed our individual freedoms and the praise that came from the churches that we will be saved from hell.

    Have you spent any time wandering around the Vatican?  Have you not seen the change in the art and sculpture and the theaters since the Catholics have been in control?  The laws by which these people wrote are not for the clergy but for the followers of the clergy.  They brought this hypocrisy all over Europe and after the reformation it landed with the Pilgrams in the New World.  This is the future of America and it is a tragedy that Americans citizens are dividing up and fighting religious wars here and abroad.  The Patriots’s Act was written by a group of German Jews who got firmly involved in directing the Republican National Committee.  The background on this had one desire….to destroy the Muslim world.  But first the American citizens had to be dumbed down as quickly as possible.  Television and the Media fell in lock step with this movement.  The only solution at the time was to down size the government and get out of the schools and leave the children to the head of the households.  The American home was decreasing as both parents had to work.  It was  like plague hit our nation.  The people wanted more government control, not less and it is still growing in that direction.

    This is a problem not limited to America but unless the American people read the histories of the other nations and then read the history of the Christian churches we will be doomed.  Our Constitution is unique as it allows the citizens to elect our various levels of government.  What good does it do when nobody cares?  I talk to a lot of people here in my section of Arizona and they want (demand) that the actions of the people must be controlled by the federal government.  They don’t even trust the individual states.  Sun City is where the old folks come to retire and they want Arizona laws to be inforced all over America.  Even the traffic laws are a little different and it is causes wars here.  What has shocked many who live here is how their own children and grandchildren want little to do with them.  Most come from the bible belt and live in fear of contamination from people like me who came from California.  Why can’t they live by the Christian laws and leave others alone? 

    I have my three organizations where I am considered a valuable leader.  We want freedoms for women to determine the size of their families.  Another group wants the freedom to be able to die when the agony of disease is too much for them to bear.  My third is the Separation of Church and State.  I don’t ask anyone here to follow the agenda of these groups. 

    I do think everyone should learn and understand what is wrong in D.C.  We don’t have to agree on this but I do declare that apathy and ignorance is all over the USA.  Take a look at the promises Obama made.  End the wars…..fix the immigration problems….start a dialog on health care….I assumed he would work for the freedoms of choice for all of us.  My agenda was to cut back the government so I didn’t vote for him and wrote in Ron Paul. 

    I was hoping that CHB would allow dialog on what it is we want in D.C.  But blaming others is a cheap way to do it.  What do we, as individuals want from our government?  How much government do we want and need? 

    What can we as individuals do to influence our representatives to shape up and work for the people?  Well Monica Lewinsky is back in the news so there will be no dialog here or anywhere else. 

    It is a losing battle but I am making headway in the other groups.  We work for an endgame not against each other. 

    Every damn thing that is wrong in D.C. is caused by the voters.  Voters who are too lazy to even understand what they want.  I’m in the wrong group here.  I meet regularly with Seculars like Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Daniel Dennett and they work for the future.  Scientists do just that.  “The Past is Prologue” another wonderful statement from Shakespeare. 

    Hey guys, Merry Christmas.

     

    Sandy 

  11. griff  December 19, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    “I blame this religious influence on the voters that has removed all instincts of individual values.”

    “But blaming others is a cheap way to do it.”

    So which is it?

     

  12. Sandra Price  December 19, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    I blame the voters for destroying our nation.  The only reason for their actions can be found in the apathy caused by religion.  You blame anyone for everything.  You slam into the corporations but have no fix except to control them.  By whom?  You blame Lobbyists but expect the government to ban them.  I like the lobbyists as they work for me in my groups.  They hand out no money but merely let headquarters know if trouble is coming.  That is exactly what lobbyists are supposed to do.  If the government is accepting money, who do we turn them over to? 

    It is very simple and the problems are easily solved but they must be recognized.  There is nothing to be done with the churches as they are doing what they are paid to do.  They are paid to keep people out of hell. 

    The problem with a constitutional republic will not work until the voters are informed and share the agenda.  Obviously this is impossible.  The why is also simple.  They have little knowledge of the freedoms and they are filled with apathy in politics.  It’s hard work keeping people out of hell.

    My opinions come from reason, not superstition, not conspiracies and not from a fear of hell.  Let’s face it; reason is lost and the people on and off line will go around in circles looking for someone or something to blame.  I questioned an old friend the other evening when he told me he was backing Palin.  The reason is she wants to kill muslims.  If Iran or North Korea stand in the way, Palin with nuke them all.  The dangerous part about this is she will do it in the name of Jesus Christ.  That is not reason!  That puts us in the Axis of Evil and I am opposed to this as an honest secular humanist. If I were an honest Christian I would be totally offended.  Go figure.

  13. Carl Nemo  December 19, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    “Have you spent any time wandering around the Vatican?  Have you not seen the change in the art and sculpture and the theaters since the Catholics have been in control?” …extract two posts back 

    “You blame Lobbyists but expect the government to ban them.  I like the lobbyists as they work for me in my groups.” …extract from current post 

    Damn Sandra I thought we were all going to hell in a handbasket because of cunning Jewish lobbyists furthering corporate interests.

    Thanks for getting me straight… / : |

    ***

    “My opinions come from reason, not superstition, not conspiracies and not from a fear of hell.”…Sandra Price

    ***

    Carl Nemo **==

     

  14. griff  December 19, 2009 at 11:31 pm

    Reason, huh?

    I could be wrong, but last I knew the average American didn’t swear an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. That particular honor would go to our elected representatives.

    You’re out of your league.

  15. almandine  December 20, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Once upon a time I suggested you let it go. Same here for both you and Griff. Careful parsing of the writings that are making you crazy suggest that is exactly what you’re dealing with.

     

    Ping pong, anyone?

  16. Carl Nemo  December 20, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    Thanks as always Almandine.  I’ll heed your sound advice… : )

    Carl Nemo **==

  17. griff  December 20, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    Crazy? Indeed!

  18. bryan mcclellan  December 20, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    A good grasp has many feels,

    I would barter tender of relinquisment be in order to include what really has become prolonged absence of face to face.

    Smile, We’re all Americans…………

Comments are closed.