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Health care reform nears key vote in Senate

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October 6, 2009

President Barack Obama gathered doctors from every U.S. state at the White House on Monday to press his case for healthcare reform in a week when the sweeping overhaul could clear a major hurdle in Congress.

The Senate Finance Committee, the last of five panels in Congress to move on healthcare legislation, aims to vote this week on Obama’s top domestic policy priority, an effort meant to cut costs, regulate insurers and expand health insurance coverage to the millions of Americans now going without.

“At this point, we’ve heard all the arguments on both sides of the aisle,” Obama told the crowd of 150 white-coated doctors who support the healthcare drive.

“We have listened to every charge and every counter-charge — from the crazy claims about death panels to misleading warnings about a government takeover of our healthcare system,” he said as he plunged back into the healthcare debate after two weeks largely devoted to diplomacy.

The Senate Finance Committee has wrapped up debate on the overhaul of the $2.5 trillion healthcare system. But Democratic hopes that the panel could vote on the bill as early as Tuesday were dashed on Monday when Congressional Budget Office experts took longer than expected to deliver a cost estimate.

The vote still could take place later in the week.

Read the full story at Reuters.Com

31 Responses to Health care reform nears key vote in Senate

  1. bryan mcclellan

    October 6, 2009 at 11:26 pm

    u8aintdeef. Eight more men and you can,t see past your momentum, Gazzy.

    These men died on an inaccessible but by helicopter, hill, more lke a mountain.

    You are bitchin at us as you pull power from our clocks ticking to sing your small minded melodies?

    I’m sure one as learned sundials..

  2. Procrustes

    October 7, 2009 at 7:40 pm

    Do you think there are any of us who would buy this? You don’t have the time or interest to do research but you have the time and the interest to try to get us to believe hogwash about what you are “sure of.”

  3. almandine

    October 7, 2009 at 10:04 pm

    I’d buy it over what you put forth…. which is really very little, when you get right down to it.

    Yours is general incredulity raised to an art form.

    It shows a lack of curiosity.

  4. woody188

    October 7, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    I was researching the list of doctors posted by gazelle1929 and one of them claimed the White House told them to wear their lab coats.

    FYI, my research indicates most of these doctors were Obama campaign supporters and some receive Federal research grants. Not exactly a non-partisan group, but it was not billed as such. They are indeed doctors. ;p

  5. Carl Nemo

    October 7, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    Hi Woody188,

    If I had the time or interest to dig seriously into the backgrounds of this list of physicians; I’m sure it would be a real eye opener in terms of exposing the Whitehouse’s “Obamacare” propaganda script.

    Thanks for this singular tidbit that one physician fessed up concerning the white coat gig… /:|

    Carl Nemo **==

  6. Carl Nemo

    October 7, 2009 at 2:59 pm

    Thanks Woody188 for bringing up the lab coat angle. : )

    I had thought of mentioning it in my opening post concerning this staged excercise in pushing grand socialism. The lab coat crowd are of the same mentality in that every politician seemingly wears an American flag lapel pin on their suit. I’m leary of signs of faux patriotism as well as staged promotionals hosted by crimpols with an agenda.

    Carl Nemo **==

  7. woody188

    October 7, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    Failure to act or stop torture abuse is the same as being the interrogator. Standing there in silent agreement. I don’t like to split hairs when it comes to heinous crimes against basic God given rights.

    The CIA claimed a doctor and psychologist were present. We can’t verify that since they destroyed the video tapes. Is destroying evidence an act of innocence?

    Those tapes could have exonerated the accused. Now they have no other defense besides, “I was ordered to do it.”

    The utter lack of morals of medical “professionals” should be appalling to everyone. They should in fact lose their license to practice if involved in these instances of torture.

    Then there is this:

    interrogation techniques appear based on “folk psychology” – a layman’s idea of how the brain works as opposed to science-based understanding of memory and cognitive function

    Must be top notch doctors working for government.

  8. Siannan

    October 7, 2009 at 2:57 pm

    Sadly, Woody is right. Just because the oath says “first do no harm” doesn’t mean that some of them aren’t willing to break it. I also recall reading several articles about doctors, psychiatrists and psychologists suiting up to go to Gitmo and other places to supervise the torture of prisoners. Of course, the alleged stated motive was to make sure they were not being harmed too much (the prisoners), but if you had any cohones at all as a physician or a practitioner of the art of Dr. Freud, you would refuse to participate to begin with.

    I have a vague recollection of reading an article somewhere that stated that Jose Padilla sits in a cell all day and twitches.

    Sad.

  9. Procrustes

    October 7, 2009 at 2:55 pm

    In none of those urls do I see anything that says doctors participated in the act of torturing prisoners, which is how I interpreted your original allegation. The closest I can see to participation is the veiled references to doctors being there when prisoners were waterboarded. That does not mean they participated. In my opinion, from the lack of specificity of what their roles were, it is just as easy to interpret the doctors’ presence as being to prevent “going over the line”, wherever that line happens to be.

    I am not condoning torture; far from it, I abhor the idea that the US has participated in such vileness. I am stating that you may not reasonably infer from presence that there was participation.

  10. Procrustes

    October 7, 2009 at 11:03 am

    If the insurance companies are fighting this reform so hard would the doctors who “shill” for them appear in this venue?

    “They found doctors willing to help torture prisoners.”

    Where do you get this stuff?

  11. woody188

    October 7, 2009 at 10:49 am

    This was all a dog and pony show, hence the doctors wore their lab coats outside of work. Anyone claiming to be friends of a doctor knows they don’t wear scrubs and lab coats around town unless they didn’t have time to change. Nice to see Obama’s Whitehouse hasn’t lost the knack for props like Bush’s “Made in USA” stickers over boxes from China.

    They found doctors willing to help torture prisoners. Sure it was no problem finding doctors willing to shill for insurance companies.

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
    Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain

  12. woody188

    October 7, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    The insurance companies wrote this reform. That’s why they trot out their doctors.

    I find this “stuff” all over the place.

    Here

    Here

    Here

    I choose to keep my eyes open instead of basing my views on preconceived notions of what the USA is and does. We like our torture supervised by doctors and psychologists as much as we like apple pie. Seems they prefer Mengele to Hippocrates.

    What I say seems bizarre and unreal to lots of people. It was hard for me to accept when I first saw the truth too. But that’s why I keep my posts honest because the topics are so explosive and so many people are in denial and don’t want to believe what is going on in their name.

  13. paulb6

    October 6, 2009 at 9:05 am

    Obama carefully chose those doctors, I have more then several doctors that I see and they all say the plan as proposed will create a nightmare for patients including very long waits to see a doctor and many retirements. Don’t get me wrong, there are many valid arguments for changing health care as it is today but this plan needs many revisions before its passed.

  14. Carl Nemo

    October 6, 2009 at 11:52 am

    Probably all 150 physicians are here on H1-B and J1 visas so they best be all singing the Obama support tune on key… / : |

    We allow physicians to come to this country under this program and if this plan passes rest assured there will be a tsunami of physicians headed for America from third world medical schools to fill the need for physicians.

    http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2009/06/15/prsg0619.htm

    Why would a HMO hire a graduate from a U.S. medical school when they can low ball salaries paid to offshore graduates. As far as the quality of medicine this new bill provides; do you really think the crimpols hatching this bill really care?

    Carl Nemo **==

  15. gazelle1929

    October 6, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    AUDIENCE
    The audience will be composed of approximately 150 doctors, including the doctors listed below, representing all 50 states.

    Dr. Paul Davis (Perryville, AK)
    Dr. Sonia Vishin (Birmingham, AL)
    Dr. Hershey Garner (Fayetteville, AR)
    Dr. Susan Wilder (Scottsdale, AZ)
    Dr. Alice Chen (Los Angeles, CA)
    Dr. Lila Rosenthal (Boulder, CO)
    Dr. Dan Fass (Riverside, CT)
    Dr. Michael Newman (Washington, DC)
    Dr. Robert Walter (Wilmington, DE)
    Dr. Mona Mangat (St. Petersburg, FL)
    Dr. Jason Schneider (Atlanta, GA)
    Dr. Felicia Froe (Honolulu, HI)
    Dr. Peter Kaboli (Iowa City, IA)
    Dr. Timothy McHugh (Meridian, ID)
    Dr. Ram Krishnamoorthi (Chicago, IL)
    Dr. Andrew Loehrer (Indianapolis, IN)
    Dr. Robyn Liu (Tribune, KS)
    Dr. Susan Bornstein (Louisville, KY)
    Dr. Stanton “Mark” McKenna (New Orleans, LA)
    Dr. Vivek Murthy (Boston, MA)
    Dr. Zaneb Beams (Ellicott City, MD)
    Dr. Richard Evans (Dover-Foxcroft, ME)
    Dr. Stephen Patrick (Ann Arbor, MI)
    Dr. Nathan Bahr (Minneapolis, MN)
    Dr. Hope Tinker (Fayette, MO)
    Dr. Persharon Dixon (Biloxi, MS)
    Dr. Meg Sarnecki (Missoula, MT)
    Dr. Dain Vines (Raleigh, NC)
    Dr. Biron Baker (Bismarck, ND)
    Dr. Amanda McKinney (Beatrice, NE)
    Dr. Nick Perencevich (Concord, NH)
    Dr. Sanjay Gupta (Cherry Hill, NJ)
    Dr. Elaine Bradshaw (Santa Fe, NM)
    Dr. Arezo Fathie (Las Vegas, NV)
    Dr. Alexander Blum (New York, NY)
    Dr. Peter Embi (Cincinnati, OH)
    Dr. Boyd Shook (Oklahoma City, OK)
    Dr. Anita Henderson (Bend, OR)
    Dr. John Maris (Philadelphia, PA)
    Dr. Nirali Bora (Providence, RI)
    Dr. Tracy Nelson (Myrtle Beach, SC)
    Dr. Nancy Babbitt (Rapid City, SD)
    Dr. Jill Jones (Nashville, TN)
    Dr. Winfred Parnell (Dallas, TX)
    Dr. Robin Poppen (Sandy, UT)
    Dr. Riva Kamat (Fairfax, VA)
    Dr. James Wallace (Burlington, VT)
    Dr. Gary Goldbaum (Everett, WA)
    Dr. Jan Sarnecki (Neenah, WI)
    Dr. Zarpash Babar (Charleston, WV)
    Dr. William Portilla (Laramie, WY)

    Yep. All H1Bs. Every one. DUE DILIGENCE!!!!!

  16. Siannan

    October 6, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    Assumes facts not in evidence. And considering I saw the news conference, I saw a fair amount of standard white folk in the group.

    Of course, you would make the automatic assumption….

  17. Carl Nemo

    October 6, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Hi Siannan,

    Never assume because someone has white skin that they are necessarily U.S. citizen/doctors. They could be Russians, East European, Brits, Canadian, Aussies, etc. but all still here on H1-B visas.

    My point was to get attention to the fact that just because Obama & Co. lines up 150 physicians who say yes to his plan; without verifying their bonafides, we know little about them or their motives for approving this proposed legislation.

    The few doctors I have interface with aren’t enthused with the plan.

    Carl Nemo **==

  18. Procrustes

    October 6, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    >without verifying their bonafides

    Assumes facts not in evidence.

  19. Scoutgal

    October 6, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    Carl Nemo,

    Where is your proof that all these 150 doctors are only here under J-1 and HB-1 visas? You should pay attention and heed your own maxim of “Never assume”. I see lots of doctors and very frequently, as I am a dialysis patient. Almost all of mine would like single payer health care delivery.

    And the link you posted reported more oversight to help these doctors-so exploitation would be curbed, not added to.

    :)

  20. Carl Nemo

    October 6, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    Hi Scout Gal et al. …

    Of course I didn’t have proof they were “all” here under H1-B Visa’s. My intention was to simply wake people up to the fact that physicians are practicing in this country under such visa’s and the number will surely grow if this bill is passed.
    My commentary was written for “shock value”. It seemed to work. :D

    Now I feel badly concerning this post in that poor Gazelle1929 spent some time frenzedly pounding the keyboard listing some of the physicians that participated along with his obsessional “due diligence” admonition. Of course I knew that few if any of these physicians were here on H1-B or J1 visa’s…#-o!

    All I know is that when politicans engage in such a hard sell for a piece of legislation as Obama & Co. have to date; that “We the forcibly insured” will come out with less than we had before. Those without insurance who cannot afford such will be skating on the backs of taxpayers above the poverty zone; ie, the middle class as usual, but assuredly not the wealthy and connected.

    I also feel Congress should have to participate in the same plan as the unwashed masses in the event a final bill is worked out. There has been a proposed amendment to achieve such. At this point there is no plan to force our Congresscritters to suffer under this no doubt piece of ill-hatched, corporate friendly legislation.

    Carl Nemo **==

  21. gazelle1929

    October 6, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    The point here, Mr. Nemo, is that if you were to stop with the hyperbole, the “shock value” and the statements that don’t stand up to any scrutiny at all, it is possible that readers might take some of the other things you say more seriously. But when, time after time, your statements are shown to be smoke, mirrors, distortions, hyperbole, it makes the reader more likely to dismiss everything you say.

    By the way, it took me exactly three mouse clicks, a few keystrokes, and thirty seconds to find that list of doctors, and then a simple cut and paste put them out there for the world to see. Had you done the same three clicks you might have spared yourself yet another embarrassment. Frenziedly, Hardly. I don’t believe in wasting energy. Obsessional because I insist on finding truth? ITWOTLRRTYGA. Denigrate those who disagree with you. Works every time.

  22. Carl Nemo

    October 6, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    Thanks Gazelle1929 for the list and as to where these MD’s reside, but it still doesn’t break down their bonafides in terms of citizenship, country of origin etc. I surely see some Indian (India) names on the list. No, Sanjay Gupta isn’t one of them.

    Please read my reply to Scout Gal concerning this tempest in a teapot.

    Carl Nemo **==

  23. almandine

    October 6, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    Free market???

    Hardly. Govt controls the delivery of health care at almost every level… from licensure of practitioners to control of insurance providers. Where are all these free marketeers?

  24. logtroll

    October 6, 2009 at 9:29 pm

    I think the point, Mr. Nemo, is that comments based solely in ideology and cynical assumptions, may not stand well against simple facts.

    I, too, have many acquaintances in the medical field. It is widely known that the effort to be paid for services under the current “system” is a nightmare. Something I haven’t seen in the superficial debates on the system of managing payments for healthcare (which is a far diifferent subject than the actual cost of providing healthcare) is fundamentally perverse in that the insurance “industry” has a vested interest in not paying for actual healthcare. The amount of every healthcare dollar that is spent in the effort to receive payment for services and/or deny payment for services has been estimated to be over 50%. Don’t you just love the free market?

    The most persuasive reason for universal healthcare isn’t even on the table for discussion.

  25. Carl Nemo

    October 6, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    Hi Gazelle,

    You’ve forced me to retract my hyperbole concerning you pounding the keyboard in reference to the list of physicians. I was trying to be kind, but now realize you don’t deserve such treatment. You’re simply an ass that deserves no consideration or such quarter. : |

    Carl Nemo **==

  26. AustinRanter

    October 6, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    New Twist from Fox News – Shepard Smith:

    Over the last ten years health care costs in America have skyrocketed. Regular folks cannot afford it. So, they tax the system by not getting preventative medicine. They go to the emergency room in the last case and we all wind up paying for it. As the costs have gone up, the insurance industry’s profits, on average, have gone up more than 350%. And it is the insurance companies which have paid, and who have contributed to Senators and Congressmen on both sides of the aisle to the point where now we cannot get what all concerned on Capitol Hill seem to believe and more 60% of Americans say they would support, which is a public option. This has been an enormous win for the health-care industry, that is an unquestioned fact. But I wonder, what happens to the American people when we come out with legislation now which requires everyone to have health care insurance — or many more people — but does not give a public option? Therefore millions more people will have to buy insurance from the very corporations that are overcharging us, and whose profits have gone up 350 percent in the last ten years. It seems like we the people are the ones getting the shaft here.

    See Video Interview between Shepard Smith and WY Senator at following link:

    http://www.independent.org/blog/?p=3551

  27. Carl Nemo

    October 6, 2009 at 10:48 pm

    Hi Almandine,

    I appreciate you referring to me as Sir Nemo, alluding that I’m wearing armor. Tumbling from one’s war horse is all part of a good days jousting. You win, draw and lose a few. I plead nolo contendere on this one… : )

    Carl Nemo **==

  28. almandine

    October 6, 2009 at 10:11 pm

    Interesting that comeuppance has fallen on Sir Nemo, when his initial post was speculative and began with “Probably”, while the first post to this thread from paulb6 is a direct challenge to legitimacy.

    Guess it’s not the message, but the messenger.

  29. logtroll

    October 6, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    I do not know Nemo from whozzit, so I’m not taking on the messenger. I can’t judge or speak for gazelle’s motives.
    Almandine, are you suggesting that if the Gummit (as my friends from Texas phrase it), whatever its involvement in tweaking the free market, was to be removed from the equation, that Private Insurers would be more motivated to pay for what they are contracted to pay for, even though it would diminish profits? Or are you just knee-jerking ideologically against free-market sarcasm?

  30. almandine

    October 7, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    Sarcasm… methinks not.

    I got a new dog recently, a pretty smart pooch, and have managed to get him to “talk” (whine, growl, etc. – no barking) whenever he wants something. He’s training me to discriminate what his different utterances mean. The success of the effort will depend on how savvy we can make each other… but one thing is clear already, we’ll never go back to square one, where we had no communication system and weren’t interdependent on each other for the rewards of our “game”.

    Hypotheticals are always fraught with implicit and explicit expectations, and in the case you suggest are much like my dog and I. The health care delivery game is too far along to be thinking that getting rid of the Gummint at this point could get us back to square one… until enough generations would have come and gone to reset the rules of the game… which, I suppose in your example, is tantamount to freeing the market. Having said that:

    Serious study of a free market apparatus operating without external controls leads to the conclusion that only through honest, fair exchanges can a market last, because as soon as one party in a transaction gets screwed by the other, the likelihood of future such transactions between them goes to nil. The screwer is then forced to hold his goods and/or services or find another screwee, and the first screwee will trade with someone else. The market continues apace. The way that doesn’t happen is when the screwer gets his buds in govt – for just reward – to make rules that protect him from such market forces.

    Voila !!! Welcome to health care 2009… and beyond. And – it’s only gonna get worse because, NO free market resetting is allowed.

  31. almandine

    October 7, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    I was torn between Sir and Cap’n… visions of grandiose allegory on both sides…

    Heads won the toss, but the Captain of tails might have been more appropos, considering Nemo’s legendary battles against imperialism.

    Then, Nemo from the Greek: “I give what is due.”