Fines proposed for not having health insurance…!?
BySeptember 8, 2009
Today it was proposed by Senate committee chairman Max Baucus MT-Dem that fines should be levied on those that fail to acquire their national health insurance.
This is a prime example of our government gone wild. Its one thing to try to devise a scheme to provide health insurance, but now evil plans are being hatched to turn the issue of health insurance into one of enforcement. So does that mean this new healthcare function will have their own branch of armed government cops marching around the country rounding up families and destroying lives; ie. what’s little left of the American way of life?
There are so many people that are down and out in this nation having lost their jobs, homes and their ability to provide for themselves and their families and this pompous, egotistical Senator is proposing punitive sanctions against those that don’t buy into whatever lame plan they might devise.
Yep, its always part and parcel for our government to turn just about anything into a crime of some sort.
Our President supposedly was against such nightmarish sanctions while on the campaign trail. It would be nice if he showed his supporters some spine and told Baucus and his brethren that any bill that comes to his desk with such draconian sanctions will be met with the tip of his veto pen.
Also they never speak of what happens to the people that already have superb plans that are provided by their corporations or retirees both lucky and blessed with similar coverage.
They seemingly are hellbent on destroying that which is now functional and good for all while turning America into the ultimate police state including civil matters.
Let’s see we have the “war on drugs”, the “war on terror”, the next will be the “war on medical scoflaws”…no?!
As a note Senator Baucus received a whopping $3 million from the healthcare and pharmaceutical industry; years 2003 thru 2008 to promote their interests. This doesn’t include what was accepted from January 1, 2009 to midyear when he allegedly stopped accepting ‘contributions’.
Just his cocky, cowboy sneer is enough to get my blood boiling knowing what a hypocrite he is concerning health care for “We the people” as opposed to health care that benefits “They the corporations”.
Note: since I posted this commentary last evening the Yahoo link referencing Max Baucus’ newly reworked plan as having penalties for non participants has been changed; ie., it’s no longer linked with that article, but instead changed to one of President Obama’s push to shove “their” plans for medical care down our collective throats. So I’m resupplying a new link from the Durango Herald that makes reference to the proposed penalty system.
http://www.durangoherald.com/sections/News/2009/09/09/Congress_may_implement_fines__for_not_buying_health_insurance/
Carl Nemo **==
19 Responses to Fines proposed for not having health insurance…!?
bryan mcclellan
September 9, 2009 at 7:20 am
Typical politicians thinking, to stop toe from bleeding, firmly secure tourniquet around neck, check every four years and adjust accordingly.
You can’t say Baucus isn’t trying to generate revenue or create jobs. New cash flow for insurance companies, Renta-cop enforcers, prison guards, and last but not least more lawyers and judges to jackboot the poor.HACK.
gazelle1929
September 9, 2009 at 11:37 am
For starters, you have provided absolutely no details about this apparent trial balloon.
Here is what the article you cited says in pertinent part:
“Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, was circulating a proposal that would cost $900 billion over 10 years and guarantee coverage for nearly all Americans, regardless of medical problems. Fees on insurers, drug companies and others in the health care industry would finance tax credits to help expand coverage. Baucus’ panel is the only one of the five involved in health care not to complete a bill yet, and the only one still searching for a bipartisan compromise.
“One provision would fine families up to $3,800 for failing to buy health insurance, essentially requiring that everyone have medical coverage, much like the case with car insurance. Obama rejected a mandate, and fines, during his presidential campaign.”
Let’s examine a bit more dispassionately. What it says is that families would be subject to a “fine” for failing to buy health insurance, “much like the case with car insurance.” Now I am not an expert on car insurance, but so far as I know it is not legal to drive without car insurance. This is not to protect the driver, it’s to protect the other people who might get whacked by the driver. And if you cannot get insurance because you are a crappy driver you end up in an assigned risk pool (frequently called SR-22) for which you have to pay a premium. Unless you decide not to drive. Anyone know of a state that requires car insurance for people who don’t drive? Thought not.
I will suggest to you that the word “fine” does not appear in this proposal; rather what you will find is that there would be a requirement to pay as much as $3800 a year for inclusion in the insured pool. I do not like that approach, but I have not seen the proposal other than what I quoted above. And I doubt if you have seen more. I will suggest to you further that this balloon will never get inflated, much less fly.
I suggest you get the proposal and read and evaluate it before doing the knee-jerk conservative thing of calling this a new effort at establishing “the ultimate police state.”
One other thing. I absolutely do not believe your figure of $4 million a year that you allege Max Baucus gets from the pharmaceutical and health care industries “to promote their interests.” I challenge you to provide verifiable documentation.
Opensecrets.org says here:
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cid=N00004643
that he received a bit less than a million in the past year from pharms and health products sector. Would you be so kind as to show us where you got that $4 million figure from? You have also said that he took the money “to promote their interests.” That is tantamount to accusing Senator Baucus of taking bribes. Unless you have damned good proof of that you ought to consider retracting your accusation.
Carl Nemo
September 9, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Hi Gazelle1929,
I guess we’ll simply have to settle for this being one of our many differences of opinion.
Concerning Baucus receiving $4 million from various interests; I’ll leave it up to you doing the research. These are figures I’ve researched from various sources since May 5th when he chaired the first committee meeting to address medical care. Prior to that I knew nothing about Senator Baucus, but having spent time since researching his bona fides; I must say I’m not impressed to say the least. To me, anytime a Congressman takes money from a lobbyist or special interest group regardless of its current legality it’s tantamount to accepting a de facto bribe.
His supporters back in Mayberry, Montana surely aren’t lining the Senator’s campaign coffers to the tune of million/s and not in the state of Montana who’s economy could be classed a having cratered due to the economic downturn. Here’s a link which within its body is mentioned that Senator Baucus has received millions from health care interests up to July 2009. Here’s a Wiki link that makes reference to him receiving millions in “contributions” up to July 2009.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baucus
It was mentioned too in the Yahoo article that a family of four could realize an “annual” penalty of as much as $3200 in sanctions against them for not acquiring government sponsored health insurance; ie., $750 per family member. What if they already have a private plan offered by their place of employment etc.? Does this mean people will be forced to join some crippled, huckletybuck government sponsored plan? Will this encourage companies to drop employee coverage en masse telling their people; “get your coverage from the government”; ie., possibly without compensation from the company? Medical coverage offered either at lower priced group rates or paid for outright by companies is a perc that just might disappear from the American workplace as a function of this legislative action.
I personally smell evil brewing in the Halls of Congress concerning this legislation no differently than the Patriot Act, endless minimally challenged “war-funding”, TARP, Obama’s early term recovery package etc.; ie., another rushed through ill-thought piece of legislation that’s going to destabilize the entire existing medical care paradigm regardless of its current flaws.
Thanks for your comments.
Carl Nemo **==
Note: Since I posted my original blog article, the Yahoo link was changed so it reflects different content which does not reference the penalties, but instead covers President Obama’s upcoming hard sell to Congress. I’ve changed it to a Durango Herald link that explains the proposed penalty system.
almandine
September 9, 2009 at 12:38 pm
There is an AP feed on Raw Story that describes the Baucus plan and the fines.
almandine
September 9, 2009 at 11:52 am
Healthcare is a Right
Driving to work this morning I finally wandered onto the thought:
Why would you need to pay for a right?
and
Why would you be fined for not accessing that right?
gazelle1929
September 9, 2009 at 3:21 pm
“Concerning Baucus receiving $4 million from various interests; I’ll leave it up to you doing the research.”
Translated:
I made an allegation and I want you, who challenged my allegation, to do the research necessary to refute my allegation or to affirm it.
I gave you the fruits of my research and you gave me a wiki article that does not have your number in it and in fact refers to the same citation I provided above. And you want me to do more research to try to prove that you aren’t libeling Senator Baucus.
That’s hilarious.
And it certainly supports Doug Thompson’s editorial about all the junk, lies, distortions, etc., on the misinformation superhighway.
gazelle1929
September 9, 2009 at 3:23 pm
deleted as duplicative (but not duplicitous)
Carl Nemo
September 9, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Hi Gazelle,
I’m beginning to think you suffer from chronic “sore arches”. You need to lighten up and start enjoying life. It seems to me that you need some “slack”…!
If I condensed all your commentary to CHB from day one to present into one single distillate; I’d come up with one unhappy, contentious, tail-biting soul.
You are obsessed with pursuing every dot and tittle concerning posts to this site to the point that you’ve become a boorish, obnoxious person…!
Recently I replied to one of your blog posts in a civil manner etc. I don’t come on to you trying to bust your chops or rub your nose in your posts which are at times lacking in gravitas and accuracy by my standards. To put it simply, I’m both fatigued and tired of your presence on this site and no doubt there’s many others that feel the same way.
You seem to be lacking in social skills. : |
Carl Nemo **==
Carl Nemo
September 9, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Hi Gazelle,
Here’s a scrap of pork for you; a link to an article that lays out the amount of largesse that Max Baucus has received from the healthcare bloc to date.
The link is to Dan Eggen’s “Washington Post” piece of July 21, 2009 concerning the healthcare industry’s contributions to the “Gang of Six” on the Senate Finance Committee and their respective take from these interests. It’s in the millions for each of them. Truly disgusting I must say and as far as I’m concerned, though legal is tantamount to taking bribes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/20/AR2009072003363.html?hpid=topnews
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/07/max_baucuss_money.html
I also amended my blogpost to 3 million for the years 2003-2008, not including the first half of this year prior to him refusing further ‘contributions’. We’ll never really know the true scope and depth of the amounts of money he’s received from healthcare industry interests, shall we?! /:|
Carl Nemo **==
gazelle1929
September 9, 2009 at 6:56 pm
So something is wrong with questioning bullcrap, lies, distortion, etc? Or is it wrong to question them when they came from your keyboard?
I didn’t come here for friends and I don’t give a rat’s patoot whether you like me or not. But when you try to sell crap you are going to be subject to questioning and critique.
Your $4 million a year seems to have suffered a little bit from exposure to reality. As I have said before, when you post crap you encourage others to pick it up and say, “But I read it on CHB.”
This is a place that needs to be able to see and talk about the truth, not idle conjectures, made up statistics, whatever.
If you do due diligence and post reliable, verifiable sources no one is going to question you, primarily because you will have already questioned yourself. But when people continually post crap those who want the truth will begin to question not only veracity of facts but motive as well.
almandine
September 9, 2009 at 8:39 pm
El Toro!!!
Let’s turn this bull.
You may not be here for friends or anything else other than truth as you see it. Nonetheless, your attitude needs major readjustment. There’s no premium in being a bitch. There’s no value in always making it “in your face”. There’s no virtue in being a bully of any sort… your forte.
You have not always proven to be “spot on” with your own crap… and until you become faultless you do not deserve to upbraid others.
Got an honest difference of opinion? OK, say so. Got a problem with “facts”, then point them out. The rest of us don’t need your ham-handed “guidance” to do the same.
Nuff said.
bryan mcclellan
September 9, 2009 at 4:49 pm
If I don’t need it I’m not buying.
If I need it I’ll pay.
If I can’t pay, I’ll have to suffer.
Leave me the hell alone to die in peace in what ever manner I so choose.
Where is the wrongful logic in that as long as I am not burden to the whole?
As far as I know I can refuse the ambulance ride and die where I drop.
What gives anyone the right to say otherwise?
Isn’t it obvious that this is one of the last chits in the poker game of life that now these snakes want control of? The last vestiges of this sacred personal freedom belong to me, not some no neck slack jawed jive ass prick that likes to pretend he’s the mother of all invention.
It’s a goddamn money making revenue generating scheme period, and you can bet the ones pushing the hardest have a vested interest in the cash flow and could give two squirts of duck shit whether you get adequate and fair treatment for so much as a hangnail…HACK2E !
Carl Nemo
September 9, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Yep, I concur too Bryan; ie., it’s all about moneyflow to the bottom line for special interests as usual, while the providing of a functional, cost effective healthcare system is not even on their radar screen…! : |
Carl Nemo **==
mterry
September 17, 2009 at 10:52 am
Submitted by bryan mcclellan on September 9, 2009 – 2:49pm.
If I don’t need it I’m not buying.
If I need it I’ll pay.
If I can’t pay, I’ll have to suffer.
Leave me the hell alone to die in peace in what ever manner I so choose.
I agree, this entire thing is a rather bolluxed up mess, and I think it might just be unconstitutional as well. I don’t have my copy with me, but I think this might serve:
Rights of the States under Constitution
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
As far as I know, none of the States in this Union, have ever asked the Fed-Gov to “take over” responsibility for such a thing as the health care of the Nation.
As far as I know, all the States already have their own health care schemes.
What does this duplication serve?
Wouldn’t we all be better off having the Fed-Gov simply helping to boost the State run programs already extant to cover all the resisdents of a given State, provided that they are legally in the United States?
Seems a better way to use the already over burdened taxpayer’s buck to me.
M. T..
“Government is not reason; it is not eloquence. It is force. And force, like fire, is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.”
~George Washington
bryan mcclellan
September 9, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Having earning power has overtaken our basic tenants of excess / morality.
Spending our way out politically or in the form of freedom by forced/lied War ultimately is false.
Invisible edifices ever fall to usurpers. It is incumbent that we hold fire to the feet of the fakirs and let them know every morsel will be digested to feed the Constitution..onion..
GovtFlu
September 15, 2009 at 7:34 pm
It’s all a joke.
Rather than look around the planet at medical systems that work in other countries and improving on them, the DC Mafia is trying to re-invent the wheel and split hairs.. the American way. Any final solution must insure the high dollar donating string pullers get everything they want.
Here’s an idea: become neutral like the Swiss, nobody hates them because they dont go around the planet fucking shit up, telling strangers how to live, summarily slaughtering innocent people.. Gut the CIA (Criminals In Action), slash military spending by closing all bases not on US soil, cease the billions in foreign aid giveaways.. redirect all that cash to free health care & education for all.
woody188
September 17, 2009 at 10:21 pm
I’m tired of the auto insurance comparison. You can choose to ride the bus or train. You can choose to walk or ride a bike. You can try to make your friends and family drive you around. This means you don’t have to have car insurance.
Under the proposed plan, you can choose to live and either carry insurance or face fines and maybe incarceration, or you can choose suicide. Those are your choices if you want to remain in the US as a citizen. Where’s the freedom?
It also occurs to me that this encourages people to work less. They can get free insurance if they don’t make enough money. Hard-working average folks are penalized if they make too much money.
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Congress is elected to represent, not to direct, the people.
Procrustes
September 18, 2009 at 4:11 am
Incarceration? Tell us more!
woody188
September 22, 2009 at 11:09 am
What happens if you refuse to pay their fine and continue to refuse to carry any insurance?
This assuming they have no means to garnish your wages. Governments hate folks like me that run our own cash business because they have no means of penalizing us without incarceration.