‘Birthers’ – Give It Up.

The issue of Barack Obama’s place of birth and nationality just won’t go away. The right-wing ‘news’ sites like WorldNetDaily and NewsMax are keeping the heat on the issue. AOL has even tossed it’s gloves into the ring, on the left side.

The arguments being made are that Barack Obama does not meet the “natural born citizen” clause in the U.S. Constitution, describing the requirements to be President, on one or more of two grounds; that he was not born in the United States and that he is a dual citizen.

Was Barack Obama born in the U.S.? Maybe not. Was he a dual citizen? Absolutely. Is he still a foreign citizen? Maybe. Does it make any legal difference? None. The best thing that could happen would be for the Obama campaign to own up, and for the Supreme Court to continue to refuse to consider the matter. Here’s why.

Was Barack born in the U.S.? The early circumstances around the relationship between his mother, Ann Dunham, and Barack Obama Sr. are very hazy. Research is frustrating in that there are multiple accounts, some clearly sanitized for public consumption and others clearly painting a worst-case scenario. Barack Obama Sr. apparently had two wives; one in Kenya and then possibly Ann Dunham. It is not clear that Barack Obama Sr. and Ann Dunham were married, or how legally under what law. In any event, shortly after the ‘marriage’, Barack Sr. became disinterested in his new family and did some traveling. For Barack Jr. to have been born in Kenya his mother would have had to travel from Hawaii to Kenya, had the baby, and returned to Hawaii. It’s possible she followed Barack Sr. to Kenya. There’s no documentation either way. Her passport records remain sealed. Three witnesses, Barack’s grandmother and two half-siblings, swear that Barack Jr. was born in Kenya. That he was born in Hawaii cannot be proven. There is no birth certificate, at least publicly acknowledged, and there is even confusion over which hospital he might have been born in or what doctor performed the delivery. There are zero known witnesses to his birth in Hawaii.

The lack of a birth certificate remains the most heated issue. If one exists it has not been produced. Last fall the Obama campaign produced a document called a “Certificate of Live Birth” issued by the State of Hawaii. This document raised more questions than it answered. First, at the time Hawaii commonly issued these for any infant produced by a U.S. parent, after the fact, with few questions asked.

Most confounding is that the document was printed by computer after 1982. A high resolution version of the document is linked to from the FactCheck.org website. The font used to print the information on the document is clearly, without any doubt, Arial. While similar to Helvetica and some other sans-serif fonts, it has distinctive signature traits (notably the ‘R’s). Arial font was created in the early 1980’s as a computer font particularly for xerographic (‘laser’) printers and was included as a standard font in Microsoft operating systems after 1984. It didn’t exist in any form before 1982. The ‘Certificate of Live Birth’ thus could not have been produced before 1982 and was created via a computer. The Obama campaign would have been better off saying that they couldn’t find a birth certificate than to try to pass this document off as one.

Is/was Obama a dual citizen? Yes. He was a dual citizen, U.S. and Kenya, at least until 1982. Kenyan citizenship was confirred on Barack Jr. by way of his father’s citizenship. If he was in fact born in Hawaii, that citizenship expired in 1982 on Barack Jr.’s 21st birthday. If he was born in Kenya, he remains a Kenyan citizen to this day, until he renounces it. But there is no disagreement that he had Kenyan citizenship at least until 1982. Even FactCheck.org agrees.

Even more interesting is the question of whether Barack Obama Jr. was and possibly still is an Indonesian citizen. In 1966 (or 1967) Ann Dunham met an Indonesian, Lolo Soetoro. They married in Hawaii and the family moved to Jakarta, Indonesia. Did Lolo Soetoro adopt young Barack? If he did, he conferred Indonesian citizenship on him at the time. At that time joint dual citizenship was not recognized by Indonesia or the U.S. The records are murky. What is known is that Barack Jr. was known as Barry Soetoro during his years in Indonesia. This is documented in school records of the time. And then there’s his trip to Pakistan in 1981 which would have been virtually impossible to accomplish on a U.S. passport at the time. The reason the Indonesian citizenship issue is important is that legally he is now an Indonesian citizen, not a U.S. citizen unless at some time he renounced his Indonesian citizenship.

At the end of the day, what do we have? At worst case we have a child born to a U.S. citizen in a foreign land, who has at least at some time in his life had citizenship in nations other than the U.S.

So how does that play with the “natural born citizen” clause in the U.S. Constitution? Nobody knows. The creators of the Constitution didn’t tell us what the phrase means, and subsequent legal definitions of the term do not retroactively confer meaning or intent on its use in the Constitution. It’s no small wonder that the Supreme Court doesn’t want to touch this with a ten foot pole. The issues are far from clear and to try to decide them would throw the U.S. into a constitutional crisis at this point. No, the Justices will let this sleeping dog lie.

And so, my advice to the right-wing ‘Birthers’ is to just give it up, for all of our benefit.

—W—

32 Responses to "‘Birthers’ – Give It Up."

  1. jy1977  March 2, 2009 at 10:17 pm

    “When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

    Hence, Obama was a British Subject at Birth.

    Obama was not subject to US Juristication.

    Obama is not a “Natural Born” Citizen.

  2. jy1977  March 2, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=90574
    More military officers demand eligibility proof

  3. impeachtheliar  March 2, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    BIRTHERS WILL NOT GIVE IT UP! THE REASON IS WE ARE TIRED OF THIS COUNTRY BEING TURNED INTO A LOW CLASS, UNEDUCATED,FRAUDULENT GHETTO!
    IT’S TIME TO CALL THE CARDS ON ONE OF THE BIGGEST FRAUDS IN HISTORY.
    JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL NOW THAT (AS USUAL) THE WHITE HOUSE WAS BOUGHT JUST LIKE AN EXPENSIVE LAWYER FOR A MURDER TRIAL.
    YOU KNOW THE GUY IS GUILTY AND THE ONLY REASON HE IS IN THE WHITE HOUSE IS BECAUSE OF FRAUD.
    THE MEDIA GOT HIM ELECTED AND THE RACISTS OF THIS COUNTRY (NOT WHITE PEOPLE BTW, THEY ARE NOW THE MINORITY.)
    IF YOU FOUND OUT A GUY THAT IS OPERATING ON PEOPLE AND CLAIMING TO HAVE GONE TO MEDICAL SCHOOL AND OBTAINED A LEGITIMATE MEDICAL DEGREE LIED ABOUT HIS CREDENTIALS DO YOU LET HIM CONTINUE TO PRACTICE JUST BECAUSE HE HAPPENED TO GET ON THE STAFF OF THE BEST HOSPITAL IN THE COUNTRY H TO THE N NO!
    BY THE WAY. I’M NOT A WHITE PERSON FOR ALL YOU THAT WILL SCREAM RACIST ABOUT THIS ARTICLE!

  4. impeachtheliar  March 2, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    BIRTHERS WILL NOT GIVE IT UP! THE REASON IS WE ARE TIRED OF THIS COUNTRY BEING TURNED INTO A LOW CLASS, UNEDUCATED,FRAUDULENT GHETTO!
    IT’S TIME TO CALL THE CARDS ON ONE OF THE BIGGEST FRAUDS IN HISTORY.
    JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL NOW THAT (AS USUAL) THE WHITE HOUSE WAS BOUGHT JUST LIKE AN EXPENSIVE LAWYER FOR A MURDER TRIAL.
    YOU KNOW THE GUY IS GUILTY AND THE ONLY REASON HE IS IN THE WHITE HOUSE IS BECAUSE OF FRAUD.
    THE MEDIA GOT HIM ELECTED AND THE RACISTS OF THIS COUNTRY (NOT WHITE PEOPLE BTW, THEY ARE NOW THE MINORITY.)
    IF YOU FOUND OUT A GUY THAT IS OPERATING ON PEOPLE AND CLAIMING TO HAVE GONE TO MEDICAL SCHOOL AND OBTAINED A LEGITIMATE MEDICAL DEGREE LIED ABOUT HIS CREDENTIALS DO YOU LET HIM CONTINUE TO PRACTICE JUST BECAUSE HE HAPPENED TO GET ON THE STAFF OF THE BEST HOSPITAL IN THE COUNTRY H TO THE N NO!
    BY THE WAY. I’M NOT A WHITE PERSON FOR ALL YOU THAT WILL SCREAM RACIST ABOUT THIS ARTICLE!

  5. jy1977  March 2, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    Certainly at the very minimum, we will not give up until Obama releases his Vault Copy Birth Certificate and his College Records.

    Until those 2 things happen, Obama will continue to be heckled.

  6. jy1977  March 3, 2009 at 9:14 am

    All people who are retired or active military who are concerned about Barack Obama are strongly encouraged to contact Dr. Orly Taitz at:
    http://defendourfreedoms.us/

    Orly currently has 101 total plaintiffs, 9 of them are active, 3 in Iraq, numerous in active recall.

    Obama must submit his documents to prove his elgibility:

    His original birth certificate with a name of the hospital, a name of the doctor, 3 signatures and a seal, his passports from Kenya and Indonesia, his immigration records and his school enrollment records from Occidental College, Harvard and Columbia.

    Please all military! Contact Orly Taitz Today!

    Contact other active and retired military and have them contact Orly Taitz today.

    Our country and constitution is at stake.

  7. gazelle1929  March 3, 2009 at 10:53 am

    Sheesh.

  8. MaineSkeptic  March 3, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    LOL!! See that?! All that talk about “Just show us the birth certificate and we’ll be satisfied” — what a crock of BS that turned out to be!

    Well, go heckle Obama. It’s your First Amendment right.

  9. MaineSkeptic  March 3, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    Nope. The British Nationality Act of 1948 concerns who is considered British by the government of Great Britain. It has absolutely no bearing on who is considered an American citizen by the United States. Otherwise, any foreign government could declare you a citizen of that country and you would lose your American citizenship.

    That doesn’t make sense. Why do you keep spouting nonsense?

  10. DSS  March 3, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    Here is a decent site that recounts the issues and why the Certification of Live Birth is a worthless document for determining on its own if Obama is a natural born citizen.
    http://www.therightsideoflife.com/?p=2322

    Showing the vault certificate would be the starting point. As that document is the only one that has verifiable facts. Hawaii prior to 1972 had very lax immigration laws. Basically anyone could walk in off the street and get a birth certificate for a baby without any verification. That is why birth certificates from Hawaii prior to 1972 require further evidence to substantiate the birth. Obama claims he was born in a hospital in Hawaii. Those facts would only be on the vault or original birth certificate. Those facts could then be verified by contacting the hospital, doctors and witnesses.

    Here is a Hawaiian land program that shows how a certified copy of a birth certificate can be obtained for $10.00. Contrary to what mainemoron keeps chanting, the short form produced by Obama is not sufficient to get a license, passport or federal job. Read pages 7-11:
    http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/Loaa%20Ka%20Aina%20Hoopulapula.pdf

    Here is what is required for a Hawaiian drivers license, if you like you can go look at what is required for a passport same thing requires a CERTIFIED birth certificate not CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH. http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/csd/vehicle/dlrequirements.htm

    “7. State Certified Birth Certificate with both parents listed or State Certified Birth ID Card.”

    Here is what a birth certificate from the same time would look like:
    http://snarkybytes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/hawaii-birth-certificate-1963.jpg

    More that require a certified birth certificate:
    http://www.hawaii.edu/fsis/index.php?q=ssn.html

    Go back and look at the blogs on this topic. There are a list of Obamabots that post on this topic 24/7. Maineskeptic, alferdp, CVC and others. None of them want to answer why Obama has refused to pay the $10.00 and produced the original certified copy of his birth certificate.

  11. smrpstrauss  March 3, 2009 at 5:32 pm

    Re: “Even more interesting is the question of whether Barack Obama Jr. was and possibly still is an Indonesian citizen.”

    This question can be settled quite simply. All you need to do is call up the Indonesian Embassy and ask whether Obama was ever an Indonesian Citizen. The telephone number is:(202) 775 – 5200. I recommend asking for the press office.

    They will tell you that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen.

  12. MaineSkeptic  March 3, 2009 at 5:44 pm

    LOL, you’re not fooling anyone!

    The COLB is not sufficient for the Homestead program because the latter requires not just citizenship but also Hawaiian ancestry.

    However, the COLB is state-certified and contains the names of both parents. It is perfectly suitable for obtaining a driver’s license, a passport, or anything else for which citizenship is required.

    This is all well known, and lying about it won’t get you anywhere.

  13. smrpstrauss  March 3, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    Re: “Three witnesses, Barack’s grandmother and two half-siblings, swear that Barack Jr. was born in Kenya.”

    This is not true. In the grandmother tape, she says that Obama was born in Hawaii, America, and repeats it. The two half-siblings were quoted by WND, but no one has heard their words or seen a transcript of their alleged comments.

    To hear the full recording of the Obama grandmother interview, go to: ?” http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/01/independent-grandmother-transcript/ (Click on full Sarah Obama Tape.)

    There are quite a few recordings and transcripts that cut the tape at the five minute mark. It is important to go to the full recording, which runs about nine minutes. You might ask yourself why anyone would want to cut the tape at five minutes when the answer to the question WHERE WAS HE BORN is after five minutes. The answer, sadly, is that they are not anxious for people to make up their own minds.

    Here’s all the unlikely things that would have to happen for Obama to have been born in Kenya:

    (1) His mother would have had to travel to Kenya in 1961 when she was already pregnant. It was a relatively expensive and difficult trip (no direct flights), and airlines in those days often did not allow women to travel when they were visibly pregnant, even as early as five or six months. Why? Because of the chances of miscarriages.
    (2) She would have had to get a Yellow Fever shot, necessary at the time, which is bad for pregnant women.
    (3) She would have had to forgo one of the advantages of traveling, seeing the sights on the way to or from Kenya. (Or else there would be photos of her in such cities as London or Tokyo, or she would at least have talked about her trip, which someone could have remembered).
    (4) She would have had to have gone to Kenya and not been proud of the trip—how else to explain the lack of photos?
    (5) She would have had to have given birth in Kenya but never told anyone about that birth outside of her family. (Or someone would have remembered.)
    (6) She would have had to have given birth in Kenya, come right back with infant Obama on the airplane (or ship), and although many people must have seen her traveling with the child, then filed a Hawaii legal document saying that Obama was born in Hawaii. (It is unlikely that she lied at all, but to lie when people have seen you doing something different than you claim is risky.)
    (7) IF she had given birth in Kenya, she would have had to get either a Kenyan or a US travel document for her child to get him to Hawaii. If the former, there would be a record of a visa issued to Barak H. Obama Jr in Kenya. If the latter, there would be the record of a US passport issued to him or a revision of his mother’s passport IN KENYA. Those records would exist in US files. Yet no one has found them—and during the election campaign most likely someone would have looked.
    (8) Kenya would be part of the conspiracy because if Obama were born there, there would have to be Kenyan birth records, but the “birthers” claim that all the files are “sealed.” (There is no independent confirmation from newsagencies or newspapers that there are any files or that Kenya sealed anything.)
    (9) Or, if Obama’s parents did not lie about the place of birth, and the Certification of Live Birth issued by Hawaii is wrong about the listed place of birth—which is Hawaii–then the officials in Hawaii must be part of the conspiracy.

    This fellow puts it better than I can:

    A posting from Andrew Walden, publisher of the Hawaii Free Press, a right-wing blog based in Hawaii.

    http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/main/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/92/Barack-Obama-Born-in-Hawaii.aspx

    Barack Obama: Born in Hawai`i
    by Andrew Walden
    |
    It is time to focus on REAL issues, not imaginary ones.

    A fairly impressive internet industry has sprung up claiming that Obama was born in either Kenya or Indonesia. This is nonsense, which distracts from the broadly unexplored story of Obama’s upbringing. This kind of nonsense has emerged because the McCain campaign chose not to raise the many questions about Barack Obama’s numerous hard-left alliances. Barack Obama was born in Hawai`i, August 4, 1961 at Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu.

    Obama’s birth certificate posted online is exactly the same birth certificate everybody in Hawai`i gets from the State Department of Health. It is not forged. There is nothing unusual about the design or the texture. In addition to the birth certificate, the August 13, 1961 Honolulu Advertiser also carries an announcement of Obama’s birth. The Honolulu Star-Bulletin also carries the same announcement. Both papers require submission of a copy of the birth certificate to print a birth announcement.

    End Quote

  14. smrpstrauss  March 3, 2009 at 6:08 pm

    Re: “Most confounding is that the document was printed by computer after 1982. A high resolution version of the document is linked to from the FactCheck.org website. The font used to print the information on the document is clearly, without any doubt, Arial. While similar to Helvetica and some other sans-serif fonts, it has distinctive signature traits (notably the ‘R’s). Arial font was created in the early 1980’s as a computer font particularly for xerographic (‘laser’) printers and was included as a standard font in Microsoft operating systems after 1984. It didn’t exist in any form before 1982. The ‘Certificate of Live Birth’ thus could not have been produced before 1982 and was created via a computer. The Obama campaign would have been better off saying that they couldn’t find a birth certificate than to try to pass this document off as one.”

    Of all the absurd comments. The Certification of Live Birth was printed in 2007 or 2008. That is because it is NOT the original birth certificate. It is a modern document certifying that there is an original birth certificate in the files. It is a modern, computer generated document, which is the summary of what a clerk saw in the files (hence the use of the term “African” rather than Negro, for race, which would have been the common term in the 1960s.)

    However, while it is not the original birth certificate, it is a legal birth document, accepted by all the state departments in Hawaii, and by the US State Department for issuing passports. Hawaii sends out only the Certification of Live Birth to people who request copies of their birth certificates. It does not send out copies of the original. How do I know? I asked the Department of Health of Hawaii. You can check, by asking your own questions by e-mail at vr-info@doh.hawaii.gov.

    So all the questions about why doesn’t he post the long-form birth certificate have two simple answers:

    (1) The Certification of Live Birth is THE official birth certificate, it shows that he was born in Hawaii, and it is legally sufficient to prove it; and

    (2) Unless he has kept the original birth certificate and not mislaid it, all that he can post is what Hawaii will send him, which is only the Certification of Live Birth, which is what he has already posted.

  15. smrpstrauss  March 3, 2009 at 8:43 pm

    Re: “the short form produced by Obama is not sufficient to get a license, passport or federal job.”

    The certification of live birth is sufficient to get a license, passport and a federal job. It is the only birth document that Hawaii sends out to people who ask for their birth certificate. It IS a birth certificate, which means an official document certifying to details about the parents, time and location of birth, and it says that Obama was born in Hawaii.

  16. impeachtheliar  March 4, 2009 at 9:34 pm

    RE: MOST CONFOUNDING IS CURRENT AND OBAMA WAS NOT BORN ON AMERICAN SOIL.
    FIRST OF ALL. OBAMA ORDERED HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE SEALED AND THE CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH WAS ALTERED WITH PHOTOSHOP.
    HAWAII HAS CERTIFIED THAT THE CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH WAS RELEASED PER REQUEST HOWEVER THEY WILL NOT VOW TO ITS AUTHENTICITY ONLINE AS IT CAN BE(WAS) ALTERED.
    OBAMA COULD HAVE PUT THIS TO REST BUY PAYING $12.OO AS I DID TO GET A COPY OF MY HAWAIIAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE. I WAS BORN ON THE SAME YEAR AND MY CERTIFICATE ARRIVED IN A WEEK OF MY REQUEST.
    MY CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH WAS ALSO REQUESTED AND I COMPARED IT TO OBAMAS ON THE INTERNET. IT IS ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THAT HIS WAS ALTERED.
    I EVEN RAN A PIXEL CHECK TO VERIFY AND IT WAS ALTERED LAST YEAR.
    LASTLY ABOUT HIM BEING BORN IN KENYA. I RECENTLY VISITED KENYA AND SPOKE WITH SEVERAL PARTIES THAT ARE ERECTING THE MONUMENT OF HIS BIRTH PLACE.
    ALSO AN INTERVIEW WITH THE PRESIDENT OF KENYA UNDENIABLY STATES THAT HE WAS BORN THERE.
    OBAMA ALSO SEALED HIS COLLEGE RECORDS,MARRIAGE RECORDS, AND PREVIOUS ALIAS NAME RECORDS. HOWEVER THEY WILL BE REQUESTED BY CONGRESS AND NOT THE SUPREME COURT.
    OBAMA HAS BUT A SHORT TIME LEFT IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
    MOST LIKELY HE WILL BE OUT BY OCTOBER.
    BIDEN WILL BECOME THE NEW PRESIDENT BY DEFAULT.
    DON’T ASK ME HOW I KNOW BUT ANYONE WHO WANTS TO WAGER THAT I AM WRONG PLEASE DON’T BE SHY.
    THIS ONE IS IN THE BAG.

  17. smrpstrauss  March 5, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    Re: “OBAMA ORDERED HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE SEALED AND THE CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH WAS ALTERED WITH PHOTOSHOP.”

    Baloney.

    Obama never ordered anything. The files in Hawaii are private. The Department of Health of Hawaii will not release them to anyone but a relative (and some others on a list, but mainly a relative). This is the normal practice in all states.

    Obama’s birth certificate was not altered. It is the same as everyone in Hawaii gets. IF it were altered, there would be all kinds of investigations, particularly of the State of Hawaii, which is under a Republican governor.

    Sure, all the other records are private too, and they should be.

    Re: “HAWAII HAS CERTIFIED THAT THE CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH WAS RELEASED PER REQUEST HOWEVER THEY WILL NOT VOW TO ITS AUTHENTICITY ONLINE AS IT CAN BE(WAS) ALTERED.”

    Sure, they haven’t certified that the document was authentic. They haven’t said it was NOT authentic either.

    The fact is that two officials of Hawaii said they looked into Obamas’ file and found a birth certificate. This could not have been a birth certificate from anywhere else than Hawaii because Obama’s Certification of Live Birth says “born in Hawaii” and it is not legal for Hawaii to issue a Certification of Live Birth that says “born in Hawaii” to someone who was not born in Hawaii.

    So, if they looked into the file and saw a document that showed he was not born in Hawaii, the Certification would have been illegal, and they would have had to say that was so, or launch an investigation, or both. But they didn’t, which means that the original birth certificate says “born in Hawaii” also.

    Then why doesn’t Obama release it? Because the Department of Health of Hawaii sends out only the Certification of Live Birth. It, however, is a perfectly legal document, and it is accepted by the US State Department as proof of birth in Hawaii for issuing passports.

    Re: “ALSO AN INTERVIEW WITH THE PRESIDENT OF KENYA UNDENIABLY STATES THAT HE WAS BORN THERE.”

    Baloney. If you have it, publish it. The grandmother tape actually shows he was born in Hawaii. That is what she said. Listen to the complete tape again. To hear the full recording of the Obama grandmother interview, go to: ?” http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/01/independent… (Click on full Sarah Obama Tape.)

  18. gazelle1929  March 6, 2009 at 10:42 am

    You are part of the conspiracy. Anyone who denies a conspiracy is automatically a conspirator. But you are in damned good company. Me, for instance.

    You may as well give it up. There is no overestimating the idiocy of conspiracy theorists, and no amount of truth, documentation, or logic will keep their deluded little brains from dripping puddles of ichor on the floor as they mutually masturbate one another in total oblivion.

  19. roallan  June 18, 2009 at 2:14 pm

    Just in case you folks are interested, divorce records search can now be done online. Just click on the link provided.

    Please be advised that it is against the law to use the information obtained from this site to stalk or harass others. Search requests on public officials, juveniles, and/or celebrities are strictly prohibited.

  20. MaineSkeptic  March 2, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    This article sadly contains a lot of misinformation. I’ll just point out a couple of the most egregious errors.

    1) The Certification of Live Birth was clearly issued in 2007. It has a seal and a signature stamp, and is an official State of Hawaii document, which makes it prima facie evidence in any court.

    2) The only way to counter that is to show that the document is fake. But those claiming it is point to old claims by one “Ron Polarik,” a self-proclaimed “expert” who is using an alias. His arguments have long been debunked by serious document experts who actually identify themselves; and even WorldNetDaily has conceded that the document is genuine.

    3) The COLB states that Obama’s place of birth was Honolulu. Because it is an official document, Hawaii stands by the information therein. One would have to prove that, in 2007, Hawaii was issuing documents containing false information.

    4) The argument about dual citizenship is bogus. Under U.S. law, Obama is a Natural Born Citizen because of his place of birth, and that status remains intact regardless of anything that Indonesia might say about it. Adoption by Lolo Soetoro (and there is no evidence that it even took place) would not have stripped him of his American citizenship, nor would any action his parents might have taken.

  21. DSS  March 3, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    The article is fairly accurate up to the point of what constitutes a natural born citizen. The problem is that Obama and the Democratic Party knew about this issue when Hillary first raised it in February 2008. There are a number of Obamabot bloggers like Maine Skeptic that dutifully put out as much smoke and mirrors as possible to obfuscate the fact that Obama has refused to sign a release and produce a certified copy of his birth certificate. Contrary to what Maineskeptic says the Certification of Live Birth, or short form birth abstract does not contain any verifiable facts such as the name of the hospital, doctors or witnesses. That information would only be included on the vault or original birth certificate which the State of Hawaii has stated they are holding, but that Obama has refused to pay the $10.00 and produce.

    The Certification of Live Birth is not valid for a passport, drivers license, federal job and many other instances. It is not evidence that Obama was born in Honolulu and anyone can do a little research on the net to find out the reasons why.

    This issue is not going away as there are many citizens that have been asking for proof on this issue since last February. What this has shown is that Obama and the Democratic party would rather place the American people at risk of civil unrest if Obama is shown to not meet the constitutional standard and has to be removed from office.

    At this time Alan Keyes case is progressing in Sacramento Superior Court, Andy Martin’s law suit seeking a copy of the vault birth certificate in Hawaii. A subpoena has been served to Occidental College to find out if Obama registered as a foreign national or a Muslim.

    Obama is blocking access to his records and has hired a team of attorneys to fight the 30 to 40 law suits filed around the country and to block access to his records. The State of Hawaii will not release the birth certificate without a release from Obama or a court order.

    At some point whatever it is that Obama has been trying to hide will come out. This issue will not go away and those that love the Constitution and have drawn a line in the sand to try and stop the continued erosion of our rights.

  22. gazelle1929  March 2, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    “The reason the Indonesian citizenship issue is important is that legally he is now an Indonesian citizen, not a U.S. citizen unless at some time he renounced his Indonesian citizenship.”

    This is just plain horse puckies. If Barack Obama was born in the US then no actions of another party can negate that status. Only he can negate that status, and he must do so by positively asserting in writing that he renounces his US citizenship. An adoption does not meet that test. If this were the case I could have gotten an Indonesian citizen to adopt George Bush back in 2000. Then he would not have been a US citizen according to the flawed logic set forth above.

    Not to mention there is in a Honolulu newspaper a birth announcement for one Barack Hussein Obama Jr. within a couple of days of the date of birth shown on the birth certificate. Anyone who thinks the “conspiracy” extended back in time that far clearly needs to get a life. In fact that admonition could be extended to anyone who continues to believe that President Obama isn’t a natural-born US citizen.

  23. jy1977  March 2, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    Obama is not a “Natural Born” Citizen.

    To be a “Natural Born” Citizen,

    You must
    1. Be born in the United States.

    2. Be born to parents who US Citizens.

    All historical and constiturional context prove this to be true.

    Exactly What IS a Natural Born Citizen?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEnaAZrYqQI

    John Bingham, Father and Framer of the 14th Admendment:

    “I find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…. . .”

    Latest Orly Interview:

  24. almandine  March 2, 2009 at 8:24 pm

    Details aside… why is he hiding the truth so… why has he hired lawyers out the yang… what has he had all relevant information sealed… what gives?

  25. Warren  March 3, 2009 at 1:28 am

    Yes. What is most conspicuous is so by its absence.

    —W—

  26. MaineSkeptic  March 2, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    jy1977 said:

    To be a “Natural Born” Citizen,

    You must
    1. Be born in the United States.

    2. Be born to parents who US Citizens.

    __

    This is not true, as the following U.S Government web site makes very clear. It is sufficient to have been born here.

    http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=85d3744a400ae010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=96719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD

  27. jy1977  March 2, 2009 at 8:45 pm

    Obama produce your Vault Copy Birth Certificate!

    It seems that the corrupt Main Stream Media is getting aggravated that this issue will not go away.

    It that is true, people who are pursuing this issue must be hitting a nerve.

    It would be in their best interests to continuing pursuing this matter.

    If Obama and others thought this issue has no credibility, we would have seen the Vault Copy Birth Certificate by now as well as Obama’s records from Occidential college.

    The fact that these havn’t been released suggests Obama is hiding something and this issue should be pursued.

    I ask everyone to get on board and continue to pushing this issue.

    Blog away on it.

    Write your Senators and Representatives.

    Contact Government Agencies for information.

    This truth will come.

  28. jy1977  March 2, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    According to school records, Obama was an Indonesian Citizen. According to Indonesian Law, Indonesia did not allow NonIndonesian Citizens to attend school. Since Indonesia did not recognize dual citizenship and due to provisions of the Hague Convention, Obama lost his US Citizenship when he became an Indonesian citizen.

    Even if Obama did not lose it, it still remains to be seen how Obama was able to go to Pakistan in 1981 when US Citizens were not allowed to enter the country.

    Some have suggested, the Obama obtained a passport from Indonesia since he was previously a citizen there.

    Addition, many believe that Obama’s Occidential records are sealed because being an Indonesian Citizen allowed Obama to qualify for Foreign Aid.

  29. MaineSkeptic  March 3, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    What an incredible crock!

    You are giving the Indonesian government the right to determine who is an American citizen? Have you no respect for U.S. sovereignty? What an outrage it would be if a foreign government could strip one of us of our citizenship! I’m glad you’re all wet.

    From there you move one to “Some have suggested … many believe …”. That’s the best you can do? These theories have been around for many months, long enough for real evidence to have surfaced. If all you can do is quote unsubstantiated rumors, you’re not going to convince anyone!

    Oh, I forgot … you haven’t convinced anyone.

  30. gazelle1929  March 2, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    Knock yourselves out folks, masturbate one another all you want with this crap; if you don’t want to look at the logic behind the truth that’s your prerogative.

    But you are not going to change one major fact. Barack Obama lives in the White House and will until at least January 20, 2013, God willing.

  31. jy1977  March 2, 2009 at 10:07 pm

    The 14th Amendment doesn’t address to concept of a “Natural Born” Citizen; only a US Citizen.

    In addition, Each year, many people adopt children from outside the U.S. The Child Citizenship Act of 2000 (CCA) grants those children the ability to automatically become U.S. citizens when they immigrate to the United States.

    Interesting, I wonder what happens to their other country citizenship?

    I am assuming that when Obama was adopted or acknowledged by Lolo Soetoro, Obama became an Indonesian Citizen.

    The Divorce records do indicate that Obama was considered a child of Lolo Soetoro and Staney ann Dunham.

    Time Line

    1961 – Obama is Born – British Juristication/US Citizen

    1963 – Kenya becomes independent – Kenyan Citizen/US Citizen

    Obama moves to Indonesia – Indonesian Citizen/Kenyan Citizen/US Citizen

    1981 – Obama’s Kenyan Citizenship expires.

    Obama heads back to the States – Indonesian Citizen/US Citizen.

  32. MaineSkeptic  March 3, 2009 at 9:54 pm

    This is simply full of lies. The Certification of Live Birth is an official State of Hawaii document which states that Obama was born in Honolulu. It is absolute evidence of citizenship and adequate for a driver’s license, passport, etc., etc., as is well known to any citizen of Hawaii: when you ask the Department of Health for a certified copy of your birth certificate, a COLB is just what you get.

    You are correct to say that it does not “contain … the name of the hospital, doctors or witnesses.” These facts may be of interest to some, but they have absolutely no bearing on his qualifications to be POTUS. Like it or not, the COLB is prima facie evidence that proves to any court in the land that Obama was born in Honolulu.

    Dance around it all you like, but those are the facts.

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