Dick Cheney’s waning influence over Bush

Vice President Dick Cheney Friday called departing Donald Rumsfeld "the greatest Secretary of Defense in history."

Honest. That’s what the man said. Standing on the podium in a lavish going-away ceremony that seemed more like a coronation, Cheney heaped so much praise on Rumsfeld that I thought maybe I had missed the outgoing defense secretary’s ascension to sainthood.

Which raises an immediate question: If Rumsfeld is so damn good, why did Bush fire him the day after the election? If this man is the "greatest Secretary of Defense in history," then why did the President of the United States sack him in the middle of a war that Bush calls so important?

On the one hand, you could say Cheney is just playing nice at a going-away party and saying laudatory things about the man who just lost his job, but Cheney’s message goes much deeper.  His comments were aimed not so much at the American people (Cheney doesn’t much give a damn about the American people anyway) but at a President who stopped listening to him and who has decided that he can run things on his own without a puppeteer called the Vice President.

The November mid-term elections did much more than just cost Republicans control of Congress or send Bush a message that he needs to find a way out of the morass called Iraq. It sent a divisional spike between Bush and Cheney that White House insiders say may never heal and one that could mushroom into a full-blown uncivil war.

Both Cheney and Rumsfeld are old-school politicians, joined at the hip since the Nixon and Ford days. Neither respect Bush. They consider him a political and mental lightweight but were content to live with such shortcomings as long as he left them alone to craft policy in Iraq, drive billion-dollar no-bid contracts to Halliburton and run things pretty much as they wanted.

But Bush needed a scapegoat after the November election debacle and Rumsfeld, the public face for most of the failures in Iraq, took the fall.

Cheney, by most accounts, went ballistic and fought in vain to save his friend. Bush refused to budge. Cheney tried political arguments, saying Republicans would be pissed because of the timing. Bush still refused to listen. Since the firing, White House sources say the two men speak to each other mainly through memos, carry on very little conversation in cabinet meetings and appear together in public only when necessary.

The test of whether or not Cheney has any influence remaining in the White House inner circle will come in January when Bush finally gets around to announcing his plans for change, if any, in Iraq. Cheney continues to push for more troops on the ground and a sustained effort in the failed war.

At this point, no one – including those closest to Bush – is sure what the President will do. Few expect him to follow any of the key recommendations of the Iraq Study Group. No one really expects him to announce any realistic timetable for withdrawal.

But others say he is cool to sending more troops into Iraq, a move that even he realizes will cement public opposition to the war.

Whatever happens, it may mark the first time in the Bush presidency that he will make a decision on his own. Yes, "the decider," the commander in chief who all too often mistakes stubbornness for resoluteness, will now have to see if his failing mental capacities are up to the job.

50 Responses to "Dick Cheney’s waning influence over Bush"

  1. Kent Shaw  December 18, 2006 at 5:14 pm

    Peter T. said, “You’re a fg idiot.”

    I believe this is a perfect example of the psychological phenomonon the psychologists call “projection”. Regardless, I do not see how this would add to an intelligent discussion.

  2. Xemu X. Xenu Jr.  December 18, 2006 at 5:16 pm

    I’d suppose you are correct about The Great Divide. But it just distracts us from the looming colapse of The Great US Empire. You almost make it look like there is something left to save either with the ‘W’ or with the US Empire. You almost legitimize the Phony Iraq Study Group by repeated references. Going to Iraq on lies, staying on lies, leaving on lies, and it still doesn’t make either of the Bush’s War Crimes anything but.

  3. Aurele  December 18, 2006 at 5:25 pm

    My opinion is a statement lost in the wind..The American public is to be congratulated in their blind support of an idiot..Very Patriotic indeed.

  4. TVAQ  December 18, 2006 at 5:32 pm

    Bottom-Line up front, I believe President Bush and his staff will be remembered as a White House that “Walked tall and Used the Big Stick”

    Rumsfeld was the Big Stick and he was used accordingly. While the Dems were busy jumping fence and joining Cindy Sheehan and her circle of trust, he was making the calls that needed to be made so America could be safe. It is unfortunate the way we measure success to tangible measures. The lack of terrorist activity in the United States has been minimal to non-existent.

    On another note, the only thing that will happen on January 2, 2007 is the passing of the gun to the Democratic Party.

    I believe the next two years will be very comical for the simple reason that the Dems can not agree on any “HOT” issue. Honestly, half of the Dems appear to be Manchurian candidates for the GOP (which is a good thing).

    To top it off you have Pelosi leading the way, Reyes in charge of the Intel Committee (Already making waves), and the possible presidential candidates for the Dems bumping heads. For Sh!@s and giggles let me name the possible brain trust for the Democratic Party; Hillary (SATAN) Clinton, Osama Hussein Obama, John (“I have a Purple Heart”) Kerry, John (Pretty Boy) Edwards.

    My prediction, the Dems will mirror the DEA agent from Florida that shot herself in the foot.

  5. TRUTH 101  December 18, 2006 at 5:36 pm

    SANDY

    Right on Again IMO

    The PORTS are about 50% protected, mainly by the Coast Guard but STILL only 5% of the containers on average are inspected. Of course we broadcast that all over the NEWS so that anyone with a computer or a TV set could learn of this vulnerability.

    Tehn comes the borders. BUSH was sending in the Guard to help, but the situation has gotten neither bettwer or worse and as you say essentially the borders are wide open from Mexico and even wider from Canada.

    Katrina’s damage in the southern states THAT VOTED SOLIDLY FOR BUSH and COMAPNY is still an abject mess. Are they learning they got exactly the government they wanted?

    So where is Chertoff.

    OH I FORGOT he is compiling records on every citizen that travels, If they buy a one way ticket, where they sit on a plane, what they eat, what they read and all of this is TOP SECRET of course and lest I forget unchallengable.

    Oh and the new program to inspect trains traveling through mid America with “hazardous cargo” Not a problem for the time since trains when so much else NEEDS to be addressed.

    YEP !!
    You’re doin a hell of a job Chertoff. Ther’s another MORON, IMO that needs to be sent packing.

  6. Joe Lawrence  December 18, 2006 at 6:05 pm

    TVAQ seems to subscribe to the right-wing-nut policy – the only one remaining – of trying to make any and all opponents sound evil by making fun of their names.

    Small wonder the country is in deep trouble.

  7. RealityCheck  December 18, 2006 at 6:28 pm

    The truth is, Bush has put himself in a no-win situation. People are waiting to hear his “plan” in early January, just like we were all waiting for the Baker group’s plan. He’s got no options. So what are we waiting for?

    All this is beside the point. Insurance companies are starting to wise up and not cover properties in Florida. Next will be no insurance for ANY coastline property. The Iraq war, foreign oil, and geopolitics will be nothing when you can’t get insurance for your home or office. There’s a sea change coming, folks, and that’s not just a rhetorical remark.

  8. Nicholas H.  December 18, 2006 at 6:36 pm

    Yep, Joe Lawrence, I agree. It’s very easy to spot the right-wing-nut Republinazis who post on here because, like Peter T above, they avoid discussing the issue but attack the poster. Typical Rovian tactic. They’re so predictable.

  9. RE:  December 18, 2006 at 6:36 pm

    Truth 101: I will concur that Homeland Security does have some kinks in its armor. However, you couldn’t be more wrong about the National Guard impact on border security. “At Entry” apprehensions are down 30% across the SWB and engineer projects have forced smugglers to LEA choke points.

    Katrina was a blow not to a political party, but to a nation. I would submit that the Dems would be in the same position that the current political party is in right now. However, the left wing, puppet master, media has the ability to spin events to favor their political initiatives. You have to agree with me on that considering that 75-77% of all media is supportive of the great donkey. Not saying that the right wing doesn’t try to push their own. I believe that educating yourself and listening to both sides you can peal back the B.S. and read between the lines. Unfortunately the majority of Americans do not have the ability to do that and want the bottom line up front.

    Joe: Your right I do consider myself to be conservative, however, not full fledge Republican. I will submit to you that I will take the lesser of the two “evils” any day of the week. For example J. Kerry or GW Bush, I will take Bush even if hell freezes over.

  10. TVAQ  December 18, 2006 at 6:37 pm

    Truth 101: I will concur that Homeland Security does have some kinks in its armor. However, you couldn’t be more wrong about the National Guard impact on border security. “At Entry” apprehensions are down 30% across the SWB and engineer projects have forced smugglers to LEA choke points.

    Katrina was a blow not to a political party, but to a nation. I would submit that the Dems would be in the same position that the current political party is in right now. However, the left wing, puppet master, media has the ability to spin events to favor their political initiatives. You have to agree with me on that considering that 75-77% of all media is supportive of the great donkey. Not saying that the right wing doesn’t try to push their own. I believe that educating yourself and listening to both sides you can peal back the B.S. and read between the lines. Unfortunately the majority of Americans do not have the ability to do that and want the bottom line up front.

    Joe: Your right I do consider myself to be conservative, however, not full fledge Republican. I will submit to you that I will take the lesser of the two “evils” any day of the week. For example J. Kerry or GW Bush, I will take Bush even if hell freezes over.

    “Service to the Nation”

  11. Steve Horn  December 18, 2006 at 6:43 pm

    Ahh … the decider .. just George and his bottle trying to figure out how, as a “compassionate conservative”, to get himself out of the mess he’s in.
    He’s not worried about getting the troops home safe, and he’s not worried about the United States – his feelings regarding this great nation are well documented by his trampling on the Constitution of the United States. No – he’s worried about the same selfish, greedy, simpleton that he’s worried about since he hid in the ANG during Vietnam, he’s worried about George W. Bush.
    As his party moves ever further from him, as impeachment looks ever more probable, as the potential for facing charges of crimes against humanity loom ever larger, George is trying to find a way out – for George.
    F*ck the people …
    Sorry for George that his true mentor, Pinochet, passed away before he could impart his “how to avoid jail” lessons ….
    Way to go George – way to go.
    And the sounds you’re hearing “are the ringing of revolution” (Phil Ochs)

    Peace

    Steve

  12. beyond  December 18, 2006 at 6:44 pm

    an empire in decline

  13. TVAQ  December 18, 2006 at 7:06 pm

    Steve and Beyond, read what Joe Lawerance posted.

    Quick to point fingers, slow on the solutions. WWYD?

  14. gh3tt0 blas3r  December 18, 2006 at 7:21 pm

    “…as impeachment looks ever more probable…”
    lololol l2p n00b

  15. The South Point  December 18, 2006 at 7:51 pm

    Bush and Cheney in Leavenworth NOW!

    Or sooner.

    Preferably sooner.

  16. TRUTH 101  December 18, 2006 at 7:52 pm

    RE

    OK, if you have the numbers, I will stand corrected on the border issue. Not living in the USA we get CNN and FOX, one on each side of the issue or today…NON-ISSUE.
    If what you say is so I would have expected FOX to have Shaun Hannity down on the Border a second time proclaiming what a great job GWB and Chertoff were doing. They aren’t

    You are also right about Katrina, However, I said what I said based on the fact of the people that were in charge and are STILL in charge and shouldn’t be.

    Chertoff nor Brownie “hell of a job” would have ever held either position., It “might” not have been any better…but with Chertoff, a year later and there is still a massive amount of work to be done there while Chertoff catalogues every flyer by the meals they order. That was my point there.

  17. Dilligafst  December 18, 2006 at 8:08 pm

    None of these GOP people, including Bush 43, really care about the American people. We are just taxpayers to give them free money.

    They are all brainless, each and every one of them, canny but brainless. The world will be a better place with them gone. Bush and Cheney both deserve nothing but impeachment and imprisionment. Rove should be sent to jail immediately for a life term. Why are they still in office?

  18. martin  December 18, 2006 at 8:09 pm

    Republicans delight in pointing out that there is little concensus among the democrats and point to this as a certain sign of weakness.

    We have the last six years to illustrate what happens when a majority party walks in lockstep. While it may not be pretty, obviously efficient, or lend itself to the 60 second american attention span, i see vigorous debate and reasonable compromise as our best hope.
    Martin

  19. RE:  December 18, 2006 at 8:22 pm

    The one great thing about our country is a Democracy. The Dems will have their opportunity to make significant impact to current international issues. The only problem is the dysfunction the party currently has on aligning on one platform. I take that back, they did stand on one platform, We hate Bush. Point taken. Okay can any one outline the Dems priorities with solutions for the next two years? Ex-Marine Murtha and his proposal for overnight withdrawal from Iraq, Nuclear activity in Iran and N. Korea, Terrorist petri dish Syria, Border Security plan (guest worker program or jail time for all undocumented aliens?) etc.

    Please educate me. I have really missed the Dems plan. I am not attempting to be sarcastic, I truly would like some clarity from the other side of the fence.

  20. Rhett  December 18, 2006 at 8:48 pm

    Sandy Price, what are you talking about? Getting our missile defense and civil defense corps in ready for a Muslim invasion? That is perhaps the most ludicrous idea I have ever seen posted on this site.

    Who is going to invade us? Muslim countries like Morocco? Egypt? Indonesia?

    We have nuclear weapons. These third world countries are not going to send their tinpot “navies” to occupy New York City.

    This kind of fear-mongering is beyond irresponsible.

    There are already 8-10 million American Muslims living and prospering here. If they were all terrorists, or if even 10% of were extremists, we would be facing daily terrorist attacks and massive civil unrest. But guess what — Muslims in America are loyal and patriotic. Most came here to escape oppression in their native lands. They are making too much money and are way too invested in this society’s prosperity to wish it harm.

    There is no Islamic invasion coming. The only way our people face danger in the Muslim world is by going over there and getting ourselves shot at.

  21. Carolyn  December 18, 2006 at 8:52 pm

    I am a shrink,I have listened to bush and the way he thinks through these miserable six years. The world is a collage with different religions, races, cultures,governments etc- they aren’t like ours- he doesn’t or can’t think like that- it’s either black or white- so I doubt he will be able to fix anything sad to say- Condi probably doesn’t do much to confront him- and because of his lack of his ability to think beyond the surface- Rumsfield and Cheney and Cheney had a field day- The other issue that is amazing to me is the stem cell issue- third world countries are now ahead of us- because of his executive order regarding stem cell research- He had a sister who died of leukemia back in the fifties- His parents like most, tried everything to save her, back then there was nothing. His father had a picture of her on his desk when he was president. Yet, knowing now that this could of saved his sister, and many Americans from all types of diseases he blocks it. He claims its a religious issue to him- Jimmy Carter was a born again Christian and he didn’t block it- This guy has no empathy, and is not capable of it- because of the way he thinks- The Democrats have to stand up to him and not pussy foot around him like they have been doing- I heard Harry Reid say he’d send more troops for three or four months if they would come back- he doesn’t get it- this will never end

  22. Meg  December 18, 2006 at 9:00 pm

    Most of you seem to believe that if you point to a few “aberrant’ white men, then you are different from them. That you are not them. But you have historically and currently been the ones who have made the worst of you both possible and probable. Your racism and your white womens’ racism, have, with your pornographic senses of entitlement, gotten us where we are. We who are not white, are not fooled. Carry on, whiners. Look to others, even those just like you, to place the blame for our ultimate demise. It is still true, despite your protestations, that whites kept black victims of Katrina from safety. It is whites who named black people as the aggressors in the Rodney King riots, when your beloved hispanic immigrants were the bulk of the rampaging crowds. It is you who believe we (meaning us) can continue to harbor every illegal in our black communities who diminish our housing stores, our schools and health care; so that you can have nannies, gardeners, and gang members to kill us in our very homes. You, white “liberals”, are the root of our undoing. Hell, you didn’t even count our votes, when Bush was selected. Blame yourselves. And keep pushing those billions into the culturally poisonous rap and hiphop. That’s helped you enormously. Or is it “anti-semitic” to point out that Jews are the greatest funders of this profoundly soul-killing form? Congrats, whites. You are everything you purport to hate.

  23. Joe Lawrence  December 18, 2006 at 10:20 pm

    TVAQ and others seem quick to “argue” by always demanding “a plan” from others, and most are able to infer the demanders also require that any such plan proffered has to fit certain Bush-like parameters:

    1. The “plan” must fit on a bumper-sticker.

    2. The “plan” must never refer to the origins of the problem to be solved.

    3. The “plan” must, somehow, lead to a “victory.” (For those who don’t have time to think that final requirement through, it means “control of Iraqi oil, into the next millenium.”

    It is hard to imagine any plan, put forward by anyone, anytime would receive even lip service from the remaining 30-percenters, much akin to the ISG’s plan. Perhaps, though, we could all gain by a semantic query? What, precisely, is the opposite of “surrender monkey?”

  24. Joe Lawrence  December 18, 2006 at 10:24 pm

    Further, how does ANYONE ever remember the correct spelling of milennium?

  25. TVAQ  December 18, 2006 at 10:26 pm

    First off, I would put the crack pipe down for a second or two. Racism does exist in the United States. However, to imply that “white” liberals are at the root of the “current situation” is completely ignorant. I could easily give you statistics that would support your assessment of the black communities (ex top five largest cities with the highest crime rates have a black population of over 60%) but I prefer not going there because it is a social problem that I believe has not been properly dealt with because black political representatives will eat anyone who points it out.

    Secondly, I am a Hispanic, first generation Mex/American who served in the US Army for over six years, worked for the Department of Homeland Security for over three years and am currently waiting for my class date for ICE. To me there is nothing greater than being apart of this great country regardless of what political party you associate with. To bring race as a factor into this blog, my fellow American you have officially ruined a good thing.

    BTW, what have you done for your country today?

  26. Kent Shaw  December 18, 2006 at 11:06 pm

    The reason Bush keeps shooting down stem cell research is to keep his evangelical constituency happy. To them it makes more sense to flush those frozen embryos down the drain than to use them to facilitate life-saving research. They don’t want to anger their imaginary supernatural being in the sky, being good god-fearing people and all. Which angers their god more? Life-saving research or flushing god-given life into the sewer?

  27. John Hanks  December 18, 2006 at 4:31 pm

    A falling out amongst thieves and murderers. Maybe thats why they can’t even whack Democratic senators anymore.

  28. TRUTH 101  December 18, 2006 at 4:31 pm

    Well Doug and all.

    Excellent column with the main point I noticed as well

    “The Greatest” was really something and I reasoned had to be aimed at BUSH not the public. Still they carried off this coronation at the expense of the American taxpayer I might add while 3 or more soldiers died while it was in progress.

    Still and hopefully until only January 2nd. the new Congress and it’s leaders were silent.

    THIS IS VERY SCARY and in January one MUST get Nancy Pelosi’s attention or IMO America is going to go even further down the drain.

    I was amazed on Meet The Press Yesterday when Newt Gingrich, one of the parties certainly, but apparently one of the President’s supporters said

    He is a very proud and very stubborn man. Even Newt has had a revelation to tell the public, not that he didn’t know it of course all along.

    What I don’t get though is this.

    It is clear that BUSH 43, WILL INDEED probably ignore most if not all of the IRAQ Study Groups recommendations, because if for no other reason, as lightweight as most of them are, most ALL of them say how wrong GWB has been all along.

    BUT This group, with Baker at the helm certainly was put together, most likely by BUSH 41 to save junior’s ass yet again in this life.

    So, the question is basically, are things in the family and the homefront getting as bad as they are in IRAQ or will daddy and mommy still support this clown prince who wants to be king, no matter what?

  29. Peter T  December 18, 2006 at 4:55 pm

    You’re a fg idiot.

  30. Joel  December 18, 2006 at 4:57 pm

    Jeesh…I hate to be a cynic, but didn’t I just hear someone articulate your “immediate question” on the Sunday morning talk-show circuit? Even if it’s not intentional, your phrasing is close enough to another’s comments to raise questions of attribution.

  31. Jeaux White  December 18, 2006 at 4:58 pm

    It is still hard for me to believe that George W. can do anything without someone holding his hand and leading him. Perhaps the infighting you are refering to also extends to a Cheney conflict with Condy and Carl Rowe? Perhaps they are the ones “directing” George W. rather than Mr. Cheney.

  32. Nan C P Loser  December 18, 2006 at 5:03 pm

    Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld = axis of evil. Puppeteers & puppet. Brainless idiot scion of oil & two powerdrunk assholes. They all deserve everything they get. Hope they all end up killing each other. Bastards.

  33. John  December 18, 2006 at 5:06 pm

    “…a political and metal lightweight…” Love it! How true.

  34. Socrates  December 18, 2006 at 5:11 pm

    In the annals of the Rise and Fall of Civilizations there is a Cardinal Principle that a People ultimately get the kind of
    Government they deserve.

  35. Sandy Price  December 18, 2006 at 5:14 pm

    There is one thing we must not ignore. Our actions in Afghanistan and Iraq have stirred up Islam. With the condition of our current security being downsized, our borders wide open and our ports still at a 50% efficienty, what if? (fill in the blanks)

    If we are attacked in the middle of our nation what do we do? Is NORAD back in business? Do we really have missiles workable for our defense? Do we have our city police and sheriff division ready for an invasion? There will be riots!

    It is time that all Americans are informed as to our security measures. Will we see another Katrina episode where the government is too ill-prepared to help any of us?

    It will take a heap of diplomacy to hold Iran off. Do we know which nations are under Islam? Should we be discussing this problem?

    An open and honest white house could put our minds at rest but does he even know or care that is next for America?

    I remember the Civil Defense groups in California after Pearl Harbor. Is there anything like this in America?

    How much of a threat is Islam? Enough to keep our troops in Iraq for 3 or 4 more years?

  36. Doubtom  December 18, 2006 at 11:10 pm

    And what TVAQ did you manage to do for your country before giving up and deciding it would be easier to head north than to put it on the line for Mexico?
    I notice in your other posting you employ the phrase “jumping the fence”. Is there a genetic component in Mexicans that accounts for that?

  37. Kent Shaw  December 18, 2006 at 11:13 pm

    Meg, you left out something very important, and I am not being facetious here. Let’s not forget the white genocide of the North American native. (I am white by the way.) I’ve read figures estimating anywhere from 16 million to 60 million slaughtered in the name of manifest destiny. Talk about your holocausts! The North American Native should hire the same press agents as the Jews. I’m not denying “the holocaust” by the way, I’m just saying it wasn’t the only one, but it is the one that gets all the attention because it is one of the more recent. Then there was Cambodia, now there is Darfur. Too bad there’s no oil under those refugee camps. Thats all it would take to save them — maybe they should drill a few oil wells. Oh, and let’s not forget the 20 million Russians done away with by Stalin. Maybe they could use a good Zionist press agent, too. So let’s all keep on killing in the name of religion. I’m sure it makes all of our monotheistic God’s quite happy.

  38. Joe Lawrence  December 18, 2006 at 11:54 pm

    Meg, you write of blacks and whites as if each member – to whatever degree – of each group is responsible for each failing of either the group as a whole or, alternatively, each other member.

    Can that possibly be what you mean to convey?

    What better incentive than that sort of thinking could there be for good people to refrain from doing anything good for race relations?

  39. Sandy Price  December 19, 2006 at 12:17 am

    Rhett. Who attacked the Twin Towers (twice) who bombed the USS Cole? Islam my friend has torn up London, Spain, and many other nations.

    I live in Arizona and the number of illegals are bigger than ever. If we were not at war (do we still call it a war?) we should have our borders completely closed. The American people saw NORAD taking the day off because they thought there would be a test.

    What you think we should do? Sit back and wait for another Al Qaeda attack? I think it would be a good for America to show off our capacity to strike back if anyone whats to do us harm. I’m tired of being a target. Did that in Pearl Harbor and in New York, the Pentagon was the final insult to show America we have no defense! None! Zilch! I’m not stirring up trouble I’m warning people to be aware and know our government is not prepared to do anything. We must be on our own and survive. I’ve been through WW2, Korea, Vietnam and The first Iraqi war and we always under-estimate our enemies. We even under-estimate our own power to strike back.

    In my opinion, America has never been as ill-prepared as we are at this time under Bush. He expects us to pray instead of act.

  40. mrinvader  December 19, 2006 at 12:18 am

    awwww are Bushy Wushy an Cheney Waney having a widdle lovers spat?

    pooah beh-behs… did cheney lose his iron grip? too bad..

    Let Freedom Ring!!!!

  41. ken  December 19, 2006 at 1:33 am

    Bush has made many mistakes, but the biggest mistake was when he bribed, threatened, and cajoled the Western World to support him in his illegal
    invasion of Iraq. Those that did support him, did so against the wishes of the people that they were supposed to represent. This has created a lot of hatred
    against America that will last for many years to come.

  42. Rhett  December 19, 2006 at 1:55 am

    Sandy Price, notice who attacked us on Sept 11 — Saudis. Not American Muslims. The Muslim population in Europe is resorting to violence because their governments force them to live in ghettos and deny them equal rights. Thankfully we do not have that situation in America, where Muslims are becoming rich off the American dream and have no interest in blowing themselves up for Bin Laden. Al-Qaeda has had huge difficulties trying to recruit American Muslims, and has so far succeeded in getting only a couple of disgruntled white guys from California, a handful of Caribbean cultists and a few Latino gangbangers like Jose Padilla. Religious profiling would never have caught these guys, who are just embittered failures who found some purpose in life by converting to Al-Qaeda’s twisted version of Islam.

    The enemy is not Islam. It is not even Muslim countries, who do not have the military capacity to attack us like the Soviets did. No Muslim government wants to face nuclear annihilation, so they are not going to attack us. That was the fallacy of the whole “Saddam as a threat” nonsense — he knew that if he attacked America, we would invade and destroy him. He was a secular dictator who enjoyed living in a palace, he he had no desire to lose it all.

    The enemy are people like Bin Laden –stateless terrorists who are organized loosely and cannot be defeated by military actions. Sealing off the borders won’t stop them. With the Internet, Al-Qaeda recruits disgruntled bozos worldwide and inspires them to join its cause. You can lock out all the immigrants, and Al-Qaeda will still keep growing by radicalizing the disgruntled loners who are looking for meaning. Bin Laden won’t be able to succeed with the prosperous American Muslim community, so he will keep reaching out to non-Muslim losers like Jose Padilla and converting them.

    The only way to kill off Al-Qaeda is to change our foreign policy which is the basis for the terrorist recuriting.

    There is a great book by the CIA’s top agent in charge of hunting Bin Laden — “Imperial Hubris” by Micheal Scheuer. He was fired by Bush right after the book came out because he explains how the so-called “War on Terror” is exactly what Bin Laden wanted. It explains everything, from the Iraq War to oil issues, that inflame our enemies in the Muslim world and shows how our bad foreign policy choices are turning potential friends among Muslims into enemies.

    Turning America into a frightened police state is what Al-Qaeda wants. The only way to defeat them is to return to the values of George Washington and the Founders, who warned against getting embroiled in overseas conflicts and picking sides in other people’s battles, such as the side of Israel in the Middle East.

  43. J. Franc  December 19, 2006 at 2:00 am

    Sandy Price, I have
    a link for you to wise up
    a bit about who did what to whom.

    http://www.davidduke.com/index.php?p=13

  44. ABC Psych  December 19, 2006 at 4:58 am

    The real terrorist threat in this country is not from outside, but inside. Read the Southern Poverty Law Center’s work on tracking our homegrown terrorists. These people are just as dangerous as the terrorists of Islam.

    Also IMO, it is not possible to close our borders. I live in Wash. state. We have miles of coastline and the San Juan Islands, not to mention the Pacific Crest Trail which ends in Canada.

    Good policework and intelligence is the key in my mind.

  45. Beagle  December 19, 2006 at 5:42 am

    “…Turning America into a frightened police state is what Al-Qaeda wants…” That seems to be what the current administration wants also.

  46. TRUTH 101  December 19, 2006 at 2:07 pm

    I agree with most of what Sandy Price and Rhett have said. I am going to start a discussion on the actual CHB website called “Patterns of Deceit”

    The idea is to show you how this has all played out to date. Everything that has happened since BUSH and his wrecking crew was sworn into office IS CONNECTED to an OVERALL PLAN. Even the latest pronouncement…”I WILL NOT BE RUSHED INTO MAKING AN IMPORTANT DECISION” statement is a stall. Why weren’t all these Important decisions made in 2003?

    When we compartementilize…THEY LOVE IT

    I think a lot of times we focus on a particular event, issue or problem especially when it’s hot on the news on TV. Then suddenly it is dropped, no longer reported and as a result, we no longer discuss it, talk about it, look for connections to a bigger picture any of it.

    I am afraid to say that with the statement of Harry Reid for example who FOX certainly has labeled time and again as a left wing nut so to speak, the desire to do the popular thing rather than the RIGHT thing is what this next Congress is most likely going to be all about.

    In this case, if the American People with whomever said it don’t get their 60-second attention spans FIXED, we as a nation will be vulnerable to just about anything the Congress to a third world nation wants to do to us.

    One final note. Basically, the people of Islam be they in Islam or in America want to live in PEACE. Someone on this website pointed to Islamists that they would never attack us or rise up.

    What they effectively did is describe EVERYONE in America today. WE ALL just want to be left alone to live our lives in peace. So effectively while putting an ISLAM face on the statement, actually described every single American of every single faith and persuassion, no matter where they live. We simply don’t want to get involved. But the writer, in describing aboiut every American HAD to put a LABEL on it and the labels were Islamists, Muslimss. Seems that today in America if we can lable it or categorize it, it doesn’t have merit…or in a few cases can’t possibly exist.

    THERE IS THE PROBLEM.

    There are certainly the extreme terrorists in the Middle East, BUT, they are also in Washington, masking as AMERICANS, wrapping themselves in the flag and proclaiming to be God fearing. No their skin is not brown or black…THEY ARE WHITE (Another label)

    They are not Catholic or of protestent persuassion, or all Jewish…they are ALL OF THEM. All the while, eroding one freedom after another, deciding how we must live our lives, according to their “vision.”

    What they have forgotten is the VERY FIRST COMMANDMENT which they conveniently ignore.

    I AM the Lord thy God, Thou shalt NOT have strange gods before me.

    MONEY, CONTROL, POWER, OIL.

    These are their gods. so their extreme religious beliefs are PHONEY,… PERIOD

  47. Sandy Price  December 19, 2006 at 2:34 pm

    Rhett. Thank you for the information. I base a lot of my opinions on Scheuer’s book. I read it immediately after it came out. I absolutely agree that keeping our troops on their holy ground forced the action on 9/11.

    I am not suggesting we drop a bomb on anyone. I am suggesting we use it as a threat to stop any more of the Islamic attacks on our allies. Come to think of it, we really don’t have any allies left, do we?

    I’ve read a dozen books on the 9/11 attacks and all the loop holes in the Commission report.

    We apparently had a system of protection from the air that took nearly an hour to send any jets to protect the areas of attack. NORAD was disconnected and told the action was a test. This action has been written about in most of the books written on the failure to stop these airplanes. It comes back to the White House and V.P. Cheney.

    I grew up in a community where nobody locked their doors as somebody might need help even if we were not home. I owned a house in the Santa Monica mountains for 18 years and when I put it on the market I had to get a key made.

    Things are different at this time and even a quick trip to the market has found me locked up tight with no access from the garage when the door is down.

    I expect the same precautions be exercised with my government and we must know who is flying in and out of our airports and who is crossing our borders.

    One of the things that has bothered me is right here in Scottsdale, AZ. We have the largest Mosque being built and talk of building a boy’s training facility. Louis Farrahkahn is behind this and I do not trust his training plans.

    We have seen the resurgency of Islam all over Europe and it is only natural that many of us worry it could happen here.

    You may be right and I hope you are. But 9/11 found us totally unprepared in many levels of our police, fire, communications and air support. We had everything needed, but nothing seemed to work. The inability to communicate between fire and police is shocking. Has this problem been solved? According to many in New York, the answer is no.

    I have never liked or respected President Bush and tried on several occassions to find something good about his decisions. In my point of view, he acts only for his own promotion, and his grasping of authority over the Constitution is a disgrace. I will never trust him to be honest enough to even consider the truth as an option in his speeches. This has been very difficult for me as I’ve been a Republican for over 40 years.

  48. TRUTH 101  December 19, 2006 at 2:58 pm

    SANDY

    You hit a nerve…consider this

    The EXTREME Muslim believes that their god ALLAH is the one true god and believe that Islam and the Koran should be the one true world religion.

    EXTREME religious born agains and others believe that their religion or perhaps interpretation of it in the most extreme is the one true religion and thereforew should be the one that rules the world.

    PNAC believes that their ideas and goals not based on ANY RELIGION at all except when it may be convenient, IS out to take over the world for the “privileged few” in their inner circle

    Is this what our young men and womes are dying for in Iraq? Are they fighting three enemies when in fact the are being told there is only one “terrorists”

    Extremeism in ANY form is terrorism IMO

    There is only ONE GOD,
    It doesn’t matter what you call him.

    I am writing my post that hopefully will connect the dots for a few. Will have it up on CHB Website hopefully by the end of the day. I hope you read it and comment.

  49. Rhett  December 19, 2006 at 8:21 pm

    Sandy Price, I understand that you are speaking out of a desire to protect America. The best way to protect this wonderful country is to go back to the vision of the Founders — reject foreign interventionism and focus our resources on making the United States a prosperous country. The way to do that is to promote civil liberties, free speech and open markets, not living in fear.

    Regarding the mosque in your community, I would suggest that you go and speak to the people there rather than presume they have bad intentions. Al-Qaeda is not going to use mosques and youth groups as recruiting centers as they are already under suspicion by the local community. The first rule of the Al-Qaeda manual (there actually is one, discovered in a raid in Afghanistan in 2001) is for their terrorists to avoid all contact with Muslim communities so as not to attract attention of the FBI.

    Many mosques all over America are being hassled and thrown under a veil of suspicion. Muslim youth camps, similar to youth camps at churches where kids go to play and learn spiritual values, are suddenly presumed to be military training sites. This creates the fear and distrust between Americans that Al-Qaeda wants.

    Go and speak to the mosque members if you are afraid. You might be surprised.

    FYI — if the mosque is indeed backed by Louis Farrakhan, then it its part of Nation of Islam, which has nothing to do with mainstream Islam. It is a black nationalist cult. Al-Qaeda wouldn’t go near those guys with a 10 foot pole, as they consider them heretics.

  50. Talker  December 20, 2006 at 2:18 am

    Michael Leeden says “The real power in the White House is with Condi, Laura, Harriet, and Karen Hughs.” All maladapted women who are in love with the president.

    My theory is that they tell him how wonderful he is which is the only find of feedback he can take. They also protect him from the big bad world by telling him how right he is. The only thing more pathetic than the low self esteem of these women is the infantile emotional makeup of the president.

    People like Bush don’t give up until they have done maximum damage. Count on Bush to do as much harm as possible for the next two years.

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