Israeli Overkill

Hamas has once again attempted to burst out of draconian Israeli policies with violence, and once again Israel has responded with overkill. After the misadventure in Lebanon some of us had hoped that Israel had learned that it was not free to launch expansive military campaigns in response to perceived threats to its security. But they have not and are looking like the military is out of control.

The killing of over 225 people, many innocent civilians, on December 27 is so out of proportion to the claimed provocation by Hamas that it raises the question of whether it was really a campaign tactic by the ruling coalition that is struggling to stay in power. It also raises the question for me of what right does Israel have to isolate, starve and kill those it disapproves of.

Yes, any nation has a right of self-defense. But the minimal impact of the Hamas rocket attack that Israel uses to justify this horrendous bombing campaign is simply does not justify this blitzkrieg.

It is time for the United States, the primary provider of money and armaments to Israel, to cut off any additional aid to them until the end this campaign, accept Hamas as the rightful government in the Gaza and get serious about negotiations to end the madness.

Israel has to stop relying upon violence in return for violence. It has never succeeded and will not now. Hamas will return the favor with more violence, then Israeli leaders will respond with more killing. What is gained with all this? Death and destruction.

Israel get big mileage out of the refusal of Hamas to recognize Israel, but that is a paper tiger. There is no real threat from this refusal and has to be viewed as posturing by Hamas. Israel, afterall, does not recognize Hamas, so there seems to me to be nothing to be gained by shaping policy around that fact.

It is time for the UN to impose sanctions on Israel for its refusal to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza and now over its brutal military attacks. Israel is a rogue nation and can no longer tug at our heartstrings as in danger of attack from Arab nations.

Israel is threatened by its own government much more than any external party. If the citizens of Israel will not reign in their government, the world must do it for them.


  1. John1172002

    Exactly,Chick. Which is why we must base our efforts for peace on what exists today, not back in the 600s when Mohammed was writing the Quran nor the 50s to the 250s, when the New Testament was being written, nor the 1500s to 30s BCE, when the Old Testament was being written. Which is why I demand that people look at Hamas’ Statement of Purpose, which is to exterminate the Jews and Israel.


    The ‘Realist’ Fantasy
    Special from the Jerusalem Post
    By Caroline Glick, 1/2/2009 10:45:30 AM

    Both Iran and its Hamas proxy in Gaza have been busy this Christmas week showing Christendom just what they think of it. But no one seems to have noticed.

    On Tuesday, Hamas legislators marked the Christmas season by passing a Shari’a criminal code for the Palestinian Authority. Among other things, it legalizes crucifixion.

    Hamas’s endorsement of nailing enemies of Islam to crosses came at the same time it renewed its jihad. Here, too, Hamas wanted to make sure that Christians didn’t feel neglected as its fighters launched missiles at Jewish day care centers and schools. So on Wednesday, Hamas lobbed a mortar shell at the Erez crossing point into Israel just as a group of Gazan Christians were standing on line waiting to travel to Bethlehem for Christmas.

    How’s that again? They LEGALIZED crucifixion?????? And we are supposed to negotiate with them??


    Some Texas village is missing its’ idiot. However, they just called and offered us money to keep him.

  2. Phil Hoskins

    John, I have tried to engage in a civil discussion with you about this difficult topic, but I will not tolerate your Hitler/ovens reference.

    If you persist I will delete every post by you and see that your are removed from the site.

    Phil Hoskins

  3. John1172002

    OK, I will no longer use those words. Iassume news articles are ok?


    Some Texas village is missing its’ idiot. However, they just called and offered us money to keep him.

  4. Phil Hoskins

    John, we have been able to disagree in the past and I encourage you to post as you see fit, but within the boundaries of civility.

    I will not tolerate anyone using that kind of hateful speech against me or anyone else who posts here. It just doesn’t help in resolving our differences.

    Thank you.

    Phil Hoskins

  5. John1172002

    There are several things Phil is right about. One was that I should not have used the verbiage I did. I apologize, and it will not happen again by me.

    Another thing is that this is a difficult topic. Yes, Hamas is the duly elected leaders of Gaza, in an election which even Jimmy Carter says was fair.

    For a long time I have been advocating the peace table. But the quantity of mortars and rockets – more than 3,000 just this past year alone – make keeping that stance untenable.

    No, not every Palestinian voted for Hamas, but enough did to vote them into power. Yet Hamas is recognized by all the Western countries as a terrorist organization.

    I personally think that Israel will launch a ground attack on Hamas in the Gaza, and I can’t blame them at all. In my view, what Hamas is doing (pursuing terrorist attacks by rocket and mortar, since the Israelis closed the border) Is simply intolerable,


    Some Texas village is missing its’ idiot. However, they just called and offered us money to keep him.

  6. hmpierson

    What guarantees there will be another small army of 10 to 14 year olds prepared to strap explosives to their bodies is the hatred taught to Palestinian children from the time they are born.

    Israel may not be perfect, but when it comes to tolerance, it is in a different universe from Hamas. Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel, and fundamentalist Islam believes you must be a Muslim or die (or perhaps be a dimhi paying subhuman). Ask a Hamas member point blank, and see if you hear anything different.

    All the bleeding hearts bemoan the security fence, but it has pretty much eliminated terrorism from the West Bank. Israel is entitled to do whatever it needs to to protect the security of its citizens. Even Libertarians agree, that’s the primary purpose of a government.

    As for obtaining freedom from rocket attacks, I think Israel should make the northernmost 20 miles of Gaza a free fire zone, unless Hamas agrees not to fire a single rocket into Israel. If Hamas gets longer range rockets and keeps firing them, extend that all the way to Egypt if necessary. If you insist on twisting the tiger’s tail, you need a better strategy than depending on the world caring about your self inflicted victimhood (even if it works on a few weak minds posting here). Firing rockets accomplishes nothing, other than an inevitable response from Israel.

  7. almandine

    As far as this piece is concerned, there are many things Phil is wrong about. And since the hole is getting deeper… he should PUNT !!!

    to mix a metaphor.

  8. Warren

    The Qassam rockets are not the primary cause of the Israeli incursion.

    Many news sources report that Hamas has recently been firing “Grad” rockets; of original Russian design, probably obtained through Iran and smuggled into Gaza.

    That’s a whole new ballgame. These rockets have better accuracy and longer range. Most importantly, they may put the Israeli nuclear processing facility east of Dimona within range and in the cross-hairs. A hit on the facility could cause massive radiation release, cost many lives, and cause billions of dollars of damage. The facility is a sitting duck.

    Under these circumstances the Israelis have little choice but to find the “Grads”, eliminate them, and make sure no more get into Gaza.

    Not intending to start a discussion on the wisdom of the Israeli nuclear program or the existence of the facility at Dimona. Only, that’s the present reality.

  9. Siannan

    10th century BC? Please explain where you get that wild claim because the Jewish calendar I found here:

    says it’s the year 5769.

    Also, the land in that area has changed hands so many time over the years, that I hardly think you can say that Shlomo’s great x 400 grandfather’s ownership 10,000 years ago means that he necessarily has a claim to that land now. After all, that ancestor may have sold his land legally to Abdul and what right do you have now to take it away from him just because at one time, he may have owned it?

  10. Scorpion

    I am about sick of all the Pro-Israel crap not only from our idiot politicians but the worthless conglomerate that is our media. For those morons still believing that Israel is the “poor victim”, read about the massacre the Israelis executed at the Jenin refugee camp in 2002 – horrific.

  11. Scorpion

    The fact that the Israeli government is elected does not absolve them of the crimes of terrorism. Both sides are GUILTY, and Israel is not the “poor victim.”

  12. Scorpion

    So Israel has no culpability? Israel is white as the driven snow? Israel is opening the floodgates for serious and real negotiations? Are you blind?

  13. Warren

    Addendum: Enough is enough. 1/10/09. This has gone on significantly longer than logically necessary to remove the missiles. And Israeli action is targeting far more than just those responsible for the missile launches. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to find any justification for the continuing extreme Israeli action.

  14. Bluesman2007

    Are you out of your mind? When a terrorist organization such as Hamas gets it’s political point across by daily indiscriminate bombardment of missiles, what would you expect Israel to do? You forget that terrists such as these don’t wear uniforms. They’re cowards who hide behind civilians and then complain when civilians get hurt in retaliation.

    “out of proportion to the claimed provocation by Hamas”

    “Claimed” provocations? You’re saying the Hamas missile attacks are mere “allegations” that haven’t yet been proven? Wake up and smell the coffee. Hamas has proven over an over again that it wants nothing but death for it’s people and it’s people are apparently too ignorant to realize that, when they voted Hamas in, they voted death in. What do YOU think Israel should have done? Counted their dead and wounded and only attack that specific number of Palestinians? Are you completely mad? (That was rhetorical by the way).

  15. John Farley

    Bravo, Phil!

    Ever since Hamas won the election in Gaza, Israel has been trying to topple Hamas. The real issue is that Hamas urges resistance to the Israeli occupation, while the Palestinian Authority is willing to collaborate with the Israeli occupation.

    Israel has been systematically starving Gaza, cutting off food, medical supplies, natural gas, electricity, just about everything. Palestinians in Gaza suffer from malnutrition (as many as 75%). Many Palestinian children in Gaza suffer from anemia and stunted growth as a result of the Israeli starvation strategy. Gaza is a gigantic prison, whose residents suffer from Israel’s suffocating and strangling blockade.

    The Israeli strategy has been to make life so miserable for Palestinians that they will reject Hamas. So far, Israel has failed. Now Israel is attempting a full-scale military assault.

    Sarah Roy, a scholar at Harvard who is an expert on the Gaza Strip, predicts that if Israel succeeds in conquering Gaza, the West Bank will be next.

    Anybody who talks about a love of humanity, and talks about improving the human condition, and means it, has to oppose Israel’s murderous assault on Gaza.

  16. Stan

    Israel has not been in Gaza for over a year. They pulled every single soldier and settler out of there. Hamas has nothing to resist. There is no Israeli occupation.

    So why is there a war going on?

    Even though Israel no longer occupies Gaza, Hamas has been lobbing missiles into Southern Israel. Israel has responded by tightening security. This has been going on and on and on.

    How do you negotiate with someone who just wants you dead? Can America negotiate with Al Queda?

    Should America negotiate with Al Queda?

  17. Wayne K Dolik

    I agree Phil. Thank you for your candor and honesty, especially the part about canceling the 3 billion dollars of aid we give the Country of Israel every year. This money amounts to 500 dollars for every man woman and child in Israel. The money is used to buy weapons from the U.S. Military Industrial Complex and the rest is used to buy influence in the U.S. Congress. It is a disgusting situation.

    Hamas was/is a legit-elected democratic government. So, the U.S. and Israel’s corrupt Masod doesn’t like them; to bad! Hamas kills one Jew so, Israel kills 270 Palestinians. Something is really wrong with this picture considering the war technology the U.S. has given Israel. There is blood on our hands too.

  18. silentSCREAM

    You made a funny. America separate itself from the Israeli war machine? Never happen. They’re one in the same.

    It is time for the United States, the primary provider of money and armaments to Israel, to cut off any additional aid to them until they end this campaign

    Campaign? Hardly. It’s a religious crusade.

    The sole purpose the U.S. provides “aid” to Israel is that it may act… in the name of securing total control of the mythical holy land. Bear in mind, control in the eyes of the truly faithful means purging all surrounding territories of any and everything inconsistent with their viewpoints.

    Don’t kid yourself. The [controling] powers of our American government look upon its Middle East meddling as a holy crusade. Money is no object… when souls are at stake. Congress wrote a blank check decades ago – endorsed by we the people. It reads “pay to the order of Jesus.”

    America’s 51’s state, a.k.a Israel is as its been since day one… nothing but a strong-arm laundry feeding off the faithfully fearful and their allowance.

    Objection at this time is an exercise in futility. Nothing will change today nor in the foreseeable future. The age of reason is not yet known to man. We still live in a time when men of power eagerly sacrifice blood and treasure based upon beliefs in ancient superstitions and fears of the unknown.

  19. adamrussell

    Keep poking the lion and see what happens.

    If Mexico was firing rockets on San Diego we would do far worse and would not have waited this long.

  20. mastergame

    In God we trust… however let us not discuss the Bible. In that Good Book Abraham makes a covenant between the parts with God. He is promised the land of Israel and after thousands of years of abuse from Babylon, Greece, Rome (the Colisseum was built with gold stolen from the Temple) and lately the Muslims who stole the Temple Mount and put up that cupula Hebrews have to apologize for defending themselves.

    While ten thousand babies a day were massacred by Germany nobody said a word. Now after Israel is attacked with weapons provided by Ahmadinejad and his cohorts we hear from morons like Hoskins about how weak the weapons are. I hope you experience such a weak weapon falling on you and your family Hoskins… then talk trash.

    An article was written in Time Magazine stating that the rifles the Palestinians use to shoot at Israelis do not even reach their targets. The fact of the matter is that Jews have been murdered for millenia out of jealousy by non-Jews and that will apparently never stop.

    See and learn a bit about all this — as well as the number of married popes — will the world ever allow Jews to live in peace? Israel grows oranges in the desert while so called Palestinians blow themselves up and teach hatred in their schools.

    How come myopic fools like Hoskins cannot see their nose in front of their face?

    Richard Ackermann

  21. Chick

    Why would Mexico do that?

    It is not difficult to comprehend the different expressed opinions here.

    Any country is entitled to respond to attacks on their homeland. That’s just common sense.

    What must be addressed is WHY some group initiates an attack. If you attack me, I’ll come at you. Personally, I will be hoping that I didn’t provoke your attack. Because if I did, and I defeat you, that would be good for me, but also a blow to justice.

    Pity that the so-called “Free Press” can not be trusted to investigate and inform the world instead of spread the selected propaganda. Worse, that our government is incapable of demanding justice in return for financial and military assistance. But, you know that isn’t going to happen.

  22. Stan

    Rooting for the underdog — a favorite American pastime –has its limits. Here the underdog, the Palestinians, have on a daily basis lobbed bombs into the towns in Southern Israel. Day after day after day.

    Hamas, the ruling government, has chosen to break the cease-fire. But Phil minimizes everything Hamas has done. Its violation of the cease-fire is a “claimed provocation.” He writes like a diplomat for Hamas or Iran.

    Hamas’ rocket attacks have “a minimal impact.” Why, you’d think Phil lives in Southern Israel and can see what’s happening.

    That Israel pulled out every single soldier and settler living in Gaza over a year ago, giving the Palestinians free run of the place – that means nothing.

    If Palestinians were open to living side-by-side with Israel in peace, that’s what would be happening. If the Palestinians laid down their arms, there would be peace.

    As the ruling government in Gaza, you’d think their focus would be on the best interest of their people: building the economy, training their people to make a good living, seeing that the buses run on time, making Hebron and Ramallah beautiful cities, inviting tourists to come visit.

    But no, that’s not their interest. Hamas is ideologically committed to wiping Israel off the map. So at every turn, they spend their time shooting at Israel – not working to see that relationships and trust develops.

    Who’s to blame? Phil says its Israel. Interesting the way he thinks.

  23. Phil Hoskins

    Hamas’ rocket “attacks” to which Israel claims to be responding killed no one. Gaza has been under seige with no means of producing income which could help it’s people pull out of their plight.

    Israel alone is responsible for this and Israel alone could make things better — not perfect, but better. Their brutality makes one wonder if there is a shred of humanity left in the nation.

    While that question is being pondered I say we should shut off the valve and isolate Israel just as they have isolated Gaza.

    Phil Hoskins

  24. erika morgan

    The Hamas rocket lobbing and suicide attacks are indeed acts of violence that are properly responded to with police action as they are propagated on an individual and group basis. The Israeli government sponsored bombing raids and systematic starving of Gaza as described above are an ethnic cleansing of Palestine. I am beginning to think that the Holocaust which Hitler carried out against Jews has only taught Jews how to adopt these horrible practices themselves.

    I think there is a lesson in this for all of us: violence only begets violence. What each “People” generally must figure out is how to conduct effective policing operations that take dangerous individuals off the streets without bringing whole populations they are trying to protect into the violence. We may need an understanding that if a government refuses to police the folks within its boundaries, adequately to prevent terrorist attacks, then the victims may have a right to send in their police in to do the job themselves; but not to conduct military invasions, indiscriminately overreaching. Pakistan also needs to take a hint: and finally stop their harboring of such criminals on their streets, and in their “Tribal Areas”.

  25. hmpierson

    As a child of Holocaust survivors, I am tremendously offended by absurd statements like:

    “I am beginning to think that the Holocaust which Hitler carried out against Jews has only taught Jews how to adopt these horrible practices themselves”

    Sure, I can just imagine the Nazis calling and dropping leaflets telling my murdered grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins to move to safety. Only someone with absolute ignorance about the Holocaust can make such inane statements.


    and see if you have the nerve to still make such an absurd statement. Or read a description that appeared on the NYT 10 days ago of 920 Jews who were herded into a synagogue by the Nazis and burned alive. How dare you compare the actions of the IDF to the Nazis, who intentionally slaughtered 6 million Jews, and countless other civilians?

    NO ARMED SERVICE IN THE WORLD SHOWS THE CONCERN FOR CIVILIANS THAT THE IDF DOES. Don’t believe it? Look up what we did in the second assault on Fallujah. Look up what the Allies (the Good Guys, right?) did when they firebombed Dresden in WWII, intentionally killing 40,000 civilians in one night. And I won’t even go into our dropping a second atomic bomb, a week after we demonstrated our might in Hiroshima.

    In as crowded an area as Gaza, where the combatants intentionally hide among civilians, Israel has managed to keep civilian casualties to under 100. What do you think it would be if the Israelis WANTED to kill Palestian civilians? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? If you examine the situation on a ratio of deaths to ability to inflict death, “disproportionality” swings the other way – the Palestinians inflict every death they are capable of, intentionally, and without mercy. Read about how they shot 8 month pregnant Tali Hatuel, and her four daughters aged 2 to 11 at point blank range. No mistakes there, this was not a case of “collateral damage.” On the contrary, these murderers were hailed as “heroes.”

    Any deaths, and especially civilian deaths, are tragedies. But to drag in the Nazis, and compare the IDF to the Nazis, is offensive beyond words, and eliminates any validity to the argument being made.

  26. adamrussell

    How is Hamas prevented from producing income, aside from being blocked out of Israel? There are many other neighbors they could go to for assistance besides depending on Israel for their livelihood.

    I do agree that we should not be paying Israel money. We need our tax dollars at home.

  27. Bluesman2007

    “Senior defense officials on Tuesday said that Izzadin Kassam had been severely weakened by the IDF operation. They added, however, that Monday night’s rocket and mortar shell barrage on the South, which killed three Israelis, proved that Gaza terrorists are still capable of firing deep into the Israeli home front.”

    Three Israelis that we know of so far. You don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ll be if you were on the recieving end of those Hamas rockets, you’d be singing a different tune.

  28. Flapsaddle

    An excellent point!

    The Nazi references are, IMCO, an attempt at guilt by association through the use of prejudicial language – a common logical fallacy – a smokescreen put out by those who cannot address many of the embarrassing realities of the situation.

    Most sincerely,

    T. J. Flapsaddle

  29. Peoplecnxn

    Excuse me? Concern for civilians???? The real scoop about Gaza is not reported in the US papers because of the fear of threats of being labeled antisemetic. But I would refer you to The article in Jan. 23 Financial Times of London. The Israeli military is engaged in serious violations of international law because they were using white phosphorus and DIME (Dense Inert Metal Explosives) in their Gaza attacks. For those unfamiliar with these illegal weapons, DIME munitions spray sharp pieces of tungsten dust over a 4 metre radius causing horrific injuries never before seen by some of the attending physicians. As for the white phosphorus, it causes very deep burns which continue burning for hours.
    Israel is conducting ethnic cleansing on a large scale with illegal settlements. They have managed to pull off an amazing public relations sham in the US portraying them selves as victims. BUT, having lived in London, where BBC reports the truth, people know better. If the good citizens of the US knew the truth about the Israelis, they would be outraged as is the rest of the world.

    Carol in Denver

  30. TeeBone

    With respect to the geography where this conflict rages the common denominator amongst all inhabitants of the Middle East regardless of their nationalities, religion or political ideology is that they are all people of color. Lebanese, Jordanians, Syrians, Palestinians, even original Israelis from the beginning of time up until this very day are people of color. So can somebody please explain to me how is it that practitioners of Judaism who origins are Southeast Russia and Eastern Europe, who are of the Caucasian race, can descend upon a region that is populated by people of color and are not descendants of nor have their forefathers owned or set foot in or inhabitated this part of the world, make a valid claim to this land. If acccording to biblical scripture and the characters referred to of the historical events that occurred during that period, isn’t the geography still the same now as it was then? Therefore wouldn’t the inhabitants during that period be the ancestors of the descendants who populate the area today? So just who are these white Europeans claiming to be the children of Abraham and God’s chosen people?

    And where was the big bad bully posture or the will to fight back when other white Europeans was marching these white Europeans into gas chambers? Why didn’t this monster the world is witnessing now rear its head in defense of its people then? Shouldn’t such a murderous rage been applied then? What did the Palestinians do to deserve this vicious rapt?

    This sordid conflict appears to be a complete fraud perpetrated upon an indigenous people by racist Zionist Jews abetted by western powers to confiscate land and resources via the barrel of a gun under the guise of the good book. Can anybody tell me otherwise?

  31. Phil Hoskins

    OK, we are edging into territory that will close down this thread. I do not intend to allow Jews to be bashed here any more than Arabs or for that matter, any people.

    This is not going to be an anti-Jewish forum. The issue is the actions of the Israelis and Palestinians and their sponsors and agents.

    Some have wanted to paint me or others as making this an issue of race or religion. I have not, and if anyone attempts to make it one I will close all comments.

    Phil Hoskins

  32. Klaus Hergeschimmer

    Israel did not recognize Hamas win they won the election instead of the horse they were backing. Israel then institutes an economic embargo turning Gaza into a Warsaw Ghetto…so what does Israel expect. nearly two thirds of the Israeli public favor direct negotiations with Hamas but it is the ultra conservative Likud that is overiding the Israeli public majority opinion and continuing to enforce the Ghetto policy toward Gaza.

    It used to be the Nazis that were wearing the Jack Boots, now it is Likud that is so gleefully wearing the jackboots now against the majority opinion of Israeli public that want a meaningful, diplomatic, and humane way to deal with the problem.

  33. claypigeonbx

    “Meaningful, diplomatic, and humane!” Wouldn’t that be wonderful? And you know what? I am convinced that that is exactly what most Iraelis and most Palestinians really want. Human beings really don’t enjoy being threatened all the time. Yes, they want security…the kind of security that means they don’t have to think about it too much. And they want to eat and drink and sleep and dream and live their lives…in peace. But how do we manage to marginalize the idiots on all sides who are constantly figuring out reasons for going to war? Could we send them all to Greenland? Or are there indigenous people there too?

    Freedom and Justice for All!

  34. CheckerboardStrangler

    Ackerman, lose the personal attacks and namecalling.
    Acting like an asshole doesn’t fly well here.
    Not everyone agrees with Phil’s point of view, but most everyone here will gladly ask to have your posting priveleges removed if you can’t comprehend that CHB places a lot of value on CIVILITY.
    Look up the word if you don’t know what it means.

    Jeffery Haas
    Mansfield TX

  35. Baal

    Hitler reference John?? As somebody who is of German ancestry, I take offense, but it looks like Phil is trying to center the discussion, so I will let it go.. The fact that you apologized indicates you are man of integrity.

    To me, it seems like Israel is well on its way in loosing its moral ground with regards to Gaza…. they already meet the qualifications of a rouge state with its history of violating U.N. sanctions over and over….

    United Nations investigators say they have uncovered no evidence to support a claim by the Israeli military that Hamas fighters were holed up in a Gaza school, prompting a deadly attack by Israeli forces that killed 40 civilians, many of them children.

    But after a preliminary investigation of the Jan. 6 attack at the Fakhura girl’s elementary school, “we’re 99.9% sure that no militants were at the school,” says Chris Gunness, a spokesman for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA). The agency questioned survivors, including UNRWA staff that run the school under U.N. auspices.

    Before the school was hit by Israeli bombs, some 400 Palestinians fleeing shelling of the Jabalya refugee camp had taken shelter inside Fakhura, hoping that the U.N. flag would shield them from harm, according to survivors. Earlier, the U.N., which oversees relief efforts for more than 800,000 Palestinians in Gaza, had passed along the coordinates of all its schools and buildings to the Israeli military so that its humanitarian missions would be spared attack.”,8599,1870087,00.html

    Wheres the MORAL high ground for Israel now, John??