Debate: McCain, an angry rusty robot, Obama urbane, in Nashville knockabout

Updated with evidence McCain may be a rageaholic. Brokaw said McCain was trying to be the mischievous imp, but the candidate I saw looked like an angry rusty robot finding ways to insert just about all his stump speech attacks against Obama into non-answers to questions. Maybe it’s just me but his interjecting "my friends" 22 times made him sound like a shifty salesman. He even called Obama "my friend" once, although he also pointed at him another time while turning away from him, and referred to him with contempt as "that one".

— Go to page 4 of comments —

Watch the video here when he points actually twice, not once, and see if you agree it shows pure contempt. Then scroll down to see the video made by BraveNewPac for compelling evidence that McCain has a serious anger control problem, that he may be what is called a rageaholic. Also, someone put a close-up of McCain ignoring Obama’s extended hand and not shaking it at the end of the debate to the tune "Cold as Ice" on YouTube here. The hand you see reaching out to shake Obama’s was Cindy McCain’s. Excuse the pun, but I McCain’s behavior chilling. Obama struck me as urbane, fitting all the definitions of the word:

▸ characterized by tact and propriety ▸ marked by wide-ranging knowledge and appreciation of many parts of the world arising from urban life and wide travel ▸ showing a high degree of refinement and the assurance that comes from wide social experience…

Now that the early polls are in and the pontificaters are pontificating it appears that the Nashville knockabout was at best for McCain a tie which means Obama won. That probably means two things. First, most people either didn’t believe McCain’s denunciation of Obama or didn’t care. They didn’t need Obama to counter-punch by pointing out the misrepresentations made by McCain about his record and his positions. Second, more people liked the style or personality that came across from Obama than from McCain. While some of his upper body stiffness is apparently a result of his Vietnam injuries, he still walked around in stiffly taking small steps. He looked physically shaky and, I hate to say it, elderly, compared to Obama with his loping youthful gait. Obama looked friendly, even bemused at some of McCain’s attacks. McCain’s smile, described accurately by many as sinister, appeared spontaneous. That to me is more frightening than a theatrical smile as it suggests he enjoys being mean. After the debate we saw a few minutes showing Obama being, well, just plain down to earth Barack with his engaging smile, talking to audience members, posing for pictures and signing autographs. He appeared natural, not uppity. I wondered how it could be possible the McCain wasn’t getting equal time. Now we know that for whatever reason he left the stage.

Update: The apple tree on the property line test.
I just thought of a way to judge candidates quite different from the "who you’d rather have a beer with". I’ll call it the apple tree on the property line test. Say you have an apple tree growing right on the property line between you and your new neighbor. You’ve loved the tree for years, enjoying the the shade and the apples. Your new neighbor doesn’t want the shade and doesn’t like apples, so he wants to cut down all the branches and roots on his property. Who would you want to try to negotiate a compromise with as they stood there with a chainsaw, Obama or McCain? Image fair use of low resolution of the cover of ”Texas Chainsaw Massacre #1” from Wildstorm. link



Everyone writing about politics has weighed in on the negativity of the campaign, especially coming from the McCain/Palin side. I’ll just post a link to today’s main editorial from "the newspaper of record" which has a video and a transcript of the entire debate HERE (you know, it’s the paper Republicans love to hate): "Politics of Hate". It begins:

It is a sorry fact of American political life that campaigns get ugly, often in their final weeks. But Senator John McCain and Gov. Sarah Palin have been running one of the most appalling campaigns we can remember. They have gone far beyond the usual fare of quotes taken out of context and distortions of an opponent’s record — into the dark territory of race-baiting and xenophobia. Senator Barack Obama has taken some cheap shots at Mr. McCain, but there is no comparison. "Politics of Hate"

Added 10/9/08: Evidence that McCain is a rageaholic. First read the definition HERE, then watch the video.


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93 Responses to "Debate: McCain, an angry rusty robot, Obama urbane, in Nashville knockabout"

  1. Hal Brown  October 8, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    McCain in Obama’s personal space?

    I read this in a comment on a Washington Post column. I recall something disquieting to me about how McCain moved about while Obama was talking but it was hard to follow since the camera was mostly focused on Obama when he was talking. Did anybody else notice what is described here?

    “I saw something that I think most pundits missed. While Obama politely returned to his seat to look at and pay attention to McCain, McCain would often move in behind Obama or approach the audience when Obama was speaking. McCain seemed to make obvious attempts to move into Obama’s personal space when Obama was giving his responses. I, for one, found this tactic rude. Clearly, McCain was hoping to distract the audience away from Obama.” (Link)

  2. sherry  October 8, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    Perhaps McCain was practicing his Ali moves… I did notice him walking behind Obama when Obama was speaking.
    It was more annoying than distracting. I remember thinking, John, have a seat!

  3. Flapsaddle  October 8, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    Many of you, including the column-writer, may find this offensive, an ad hominem against all posters on this thread, but I’ve got to say that I don’t think I’ve recently heard more said about less than what has been written here about the debate.

    Last night’s urinating contest between the candidates was a thoroughly boring and uninformative exchange, and I cannot for the life of me see how an intelligent person would find it, the previous contest, or the next one, to be of any possible use in deciding how to hold our nose and suppress our gag reflex in order to pull the lever for the lesser of the two evils presented.

    Let me be absolutely blunt: If, by this time, you have not had sufficient input to decide how to expend your vote, then you probably cannot vote intelligently under the best of circumstances.

    Now, Mr. Brown et al., censor, admonish, excoriate, condemn, vilify, curse, revile and fulminate to your heart’s content…but it will not change the truth of the matter one iota.

    Most sincerely,

    T. J. Flapsaddle

  4. colocritic  October 8, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    Hal, I noticed that, too. It was almost like he couldn’t sit still. Maybe the chair was too high and not comfortable for him but he certainly didn’t sit on it very much. All evening I kept thinking his upper body appeared as “I’ll huff, I’ll puff and blow…..” (explode). For some reason he seemed very rigid in posture as well as narrative, at least to me. He reminded me of a cartoon character on t.v. that flits around with the sound of boing, boing, boing! He even crossed between Obama and the camera one time. Rude, I agree!

    You can’t help but feel sorry for his floundering attempts lately, he is losing and losing badly. I expect a real landslide on Nov. 4. His terribly negative ads are actually hurting him more than helping. He’s a desperate old man, willing to do anything at all to try to win. His bad choices are his biggest problem and he can’t seem to help himself.

    The choice to leave the area right after the debate was a case in point. Look at the points Obama probably gained by staying there, shaking hands, visiting with the crowd that stayed with him and Michelle. Not to mention the courtesy of doing so. That really impressed me. It shows what a decent and caring couple they are compared to the cold shoulder, elite McCains.

    colocritic

  5. JudyB  October 8, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    If it appeared McCain was as restless as a whore in church..he was! The so called “Maverick” was in the “Hot Seat” and he knew it.

  6. RichardKanePA  October 8, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    I believe that both Obama and McCain are decent men, though I fear McCain’s positions on Latin America particularly toward Chavez, and his history with the Contras. However, I believe that sparing with Russia and even staying in Iraq is just election hype. As is Obama’s claim he will fight NAFTA rather than try to weaken it a bit, I don’t believe it. Since Palin entered the picture Obama forgot his original call for both Russia and Georga to cool it. I could be exaggerating but he seemed to realize that Georgia made an unnecessary provocation and Russia responded with an overreaction.

    My problem is that all of us, the more we campaign and join the campaign, the worst we make America’s understanding of the world and the more we lower the American spirit.

    I dwell on Sarah Palin, who isn’t for campaign purposes, pretending to be worse then she is but is pretending to be better than she really is. But logic tells me that I too could be adding the messy goo we are all plunging into.

    When are we are going to educate ourselves about the real world out there, we in the US have less understanding then most of the people of this world.

    RichardKanePA

  7. AustinRanter  October 8, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    We might consider turning our anger toward the debate process itself. It seems to me that the current formats do little to facilitate adequate exchanges between candidates (nominees) to reveal the specifics of issues and solutions rather than the usual political rhetoric that we seem to always get…and then complain about it…and some how never do anything about it.

    As long as politicians are allowed to play the ABSTRACT, blow-smoke-up-your-ass games…then I’m afraid a lot of folks just aren’t going to get the gist of what the issues are…or what the solutions are to the respective issues.

    Example: “I’m gonna put a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage.”

    Question: Is the chicken rubber or maybe a tiny little chicken that is too small to eat? That’s what we’ve gotten from past promises. You know, we can’t chew or swallow it…or it just wasn’t enough to even really eat.

    Question: Is the car a toy car or a Junker from a salvage yard? Does the car have an engine? Does have enough space to fit my entire family in it?

    Also…how about creating some instrument of accountability which demands both TRUTH and CONSEQUENCES for candidates and nominees before, during, and after election periods?

    Maybe it’s time for the American people demand that Congress make a law that states that individuals running for public office must publish easily accessible information, in detail, about what he or she specifically defines as problems and/or issues, and that they must then list very specific, itemized solutions to those respective problems or issues as they perceive them to be. WAIT…that won’t work unless somebody can figure out how to publish such information at a 3rd grade reading level and then publish that information on porn sites, match.com, Myspace, or Facebook listed under a category such as, “People in government who like to screw us”.

    I just love the Powerist Party…you know, all of the old Democrats and Republicans who joined together eons ago…and who figured out that they could sucker the public to death by creating the illusion of a two party system that fights all the time…putting their country above their own needs.

    Yawwwwwwwwwwnnnnnn!

  8. Hal Brown  October 8, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    I am trying to keep our discourse with each other civil. Let’s not veer off into NEGATIVE personal asides. I just deleted several comments that, while there was legitimate content, there were references to other posters that seem to beg for a personal retort.

    Come on folks, you know when you are doing this.

  9. sherry  October 8, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    You are right to point this out. I missed it. Sorry. It is gone. I wish everyone would get on the learning curve so I don’t have read each and every post with a microscope.

  10. GoshDarnIt  October 8, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    Kudos to Hal for keeping this site so high quality. I’ve read a lot of worthless political sites populated mainly by knee-jerk reactionaries of both political persuasions. I find CHB to be thoughtful and informative. Keep up the good work (Hal) and keep using your brains as God intended (everyone else).

    You betcha!

    from Hal

    Goshdarnit, thanks for the vote of appreciation. Sometimes when I go out for a couple of hours, come home and see there are 13 new posts as happened today, I both look forward to reading them and, doggone it, I dread what I’ll find.

    Next page of comments

  11. Hal Brown  October 8, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    “My friends” 22 times, on Hardball Chris Mathews reported, as I assumed someone would, how many times McCain said “my friends”.

    What Mathews didn’t say but can be easily figured is how often that would be. Assume in a 90 minute debate McCain talked for 44 minutes. That’s one “my friends” every two minutes.

    This is not the most meaningful part of anyone’s analysis of the debate by any stretch, but I can’t imagine a public speaking teacher recommending it.

  12. peagcu12  October 8, 2008 at 7:30 pm

    The old guy looked old. I hope people don’t vote against him simply because he looks old. Vote against him for the right reason. He will keep us in Iraq till the country is “right”. I hate to tell him but that’s never going to happen and it’s not a true test of that country’s mettle. Leave them to see if they embrace our ideals. Don’t try to force them upon them. This type of system has never “taken” when it was forced.

    Cruzn

  13. Hal Brown  October 8, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    McCain won’t skake Obama’s hand.

    Someone put a close up of McCain ignoring Obama’s extended hand to the tune “Cold as Ice” on YouTube here. The hand you see reaching out to shake Obama’s was Cindy McCain’s. Excuse the pun, but I find McCain’s behavior chilling.

  14. JerryG  October 8, 2008 at 7:50 pm

    Ya’ know it’s easy to find the comedy and pathos in John McCain. Personally, I didn’t really expect anything dynamic and out of character for him with 4 weeks to go. I was disappointed with Obama and, quite frankly, expected more. My expectations primarily lay in a very simple concept – answering the question.

    My gut and intuition tell me why Obama answered the way he did last night. I “think” I know why. Yet, it would have been somewhat refreshing to see him ratchet it up a bit using fewer of his standard cliches and more of his intellect.

  15. sherry  October 8, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    Hal, you know what would have been totally creepily, dejavu?
    Had McCain said, My fellow Americans……. eveb once, never mind 22 times.
    shiver.
    That said, watching McCain was like watching a tape of every republican every four years for as long as I can remember.
    While Obama and McCain were guilty of rehashing their campaign talking points, the “my friends” just harkened back to days we’d rather not remember

  16. sherry  October 8, 2008 at 8:05 pm

    There was no reason for Obama to take any chances. No reason for him to stir any controversy. He is winning. Why upset the apple cart so to speak.
    It was up to McCain to change the game. He didn’t.
    While we would have liked to see anything to break the mind numbing boredom, it didn’t happen.

  17. gazelle1929  October 8, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    And wouldn’t it be nice to have four years of mind numbing boredom instead of this day to day living in sheer terror of what Dubya is going to do or say today?

  18. Hal Brown  October 8, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    I’m frustrated, that’s a mild term for how I feel, with candidates and their surrogates ignoring questions and launching into prepared talking points. I wish questioners would hold their feet to the fire and insist they answer questions.

    I was hoping that Obama at least would have answered the last question, which was as existential as it was zen. But if either of them had done so – and I know Obama could have – they would have lost 95% of the audience. Instead they gave their closing speech.

    If you doubt whether or not Obama could have fielded this question consider what Republican David Brooks wrote:

    Obama has the great intellect. I was interviewing Obama a couple years ago, and I’m getting nowhere with the interview, it’s late in the night, he’s on the phone, walking off the Senate floor, he’s cranky. Out of the blue I say, ‘Ever read a guy named Reinhold Niebuhr?’ And he says, ‘Yeah.’ So i say, ‘What did Niebuhr mean to you?’ For the next 20 minutes, he gave me a perfect description of Reinhold Niebuhr’s thought, which is a very subtle thought process based on the idea that you have to use power while it corrupts you. And I was dazzled, I felt the tingle up my knee as Chris Matthews would say. LINK

  19. Hal Brown  October 8, 2008 at 8:48 pm

    “My fellow prisoners” says McCain today.

    What do you all make of this slip of the tongue?

    I’m struck by how he didn’t seem to realize he said it. Most people who make a slip, even a small one but especially as significant as this one, show some indication on their face that they realize what they said.

    I’m supposed to be the shrink here, but I really don’t want to jump to conclusions that he is having some unresolved PTSD emerge during these stressful times when he’s dealing with growing evidence that he’s going to loose.

  20. pollchecker  October 8, 2008 at 9:48 pm

    “My fellow prisoners” says McCain today.

    I make that he made the same mistake when he allegedly, jokingly referred to himself as a dictator.

    Additionally he had the same look when he called himself a dicator…not something that indicated any type of humor.

  21. ECT.  October 8, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    ECT.

    While watching the debate last evening, I too noticed McCain moving behind Obama several times. McCain also walked towards the audience on several occasions. On one occasion McCain also made a hand motion towards the audience…as if to say ” can you believe this.”

    I am sure if anyone goes back and reviews last nights video they will spot these manouvers of McCains. And, they will also notice that Obama sat quietly and listened respectfully as McCain spoke.

  22. sherry  October 8, 2008 at 11:51 pm

    Hal, you are the therapist. Tell me.
    It concerns me he apparently didn’t realize what he said. Perhaps its just and extention of “my friends”, my fellow prisoners…. o my gosh.
    O that is disconcerting on so many levels.

  23. almandine  October 8, 2008 at 11:56 pm

    Spot on TJ…

    The scary part is that it doesn’t make a dime’s worth of difference which one it is… our chickens are already roosting in all those DC cherry trees. That’s why there’s so much chickenshit to wade through when it comes to engaging our elected reps in honest, useful activity.

    It’s too late in the season to change much about the current Congressional election, but I’ve already put my rep on notice that 2010 will not be a happy time!

  24. Hal Brown  October 9, 2008 at 8:50 am

    I’m not HIS therapist, and if I was confidentiality would prohibit me from even admitting it let alone giving an opinion.

    Of course I have tried to apply what I know about psychology to public figures in some of my columns.

    A five year POW experience would have effected anybody psychologically.

    Ideally all POWs should have had therapy on return and headed off delayed PTSD. Some people have prolonged trauma, POWs and child abuse victims are examples, and once the trauma is over they show no symptoms due to repression, even amnesia especially with children.

    There are two kinds of PTSD, acute and delayed, and there are signs McCain has some symptoms of the later.

    On McCain’s slip of the tongue you’d want to ask whether there was something immediate in the moment that unconsciously trigger something from Vietnam, or whether it more ties in with starting to feel (in a different way) ashelpless to control his future as he did in Hanoi.

  25. sherry  October 9, 2008 at 9:29 am

    My cousin had PTSD. His whole personality changed when he came home from Vietnam. I was 8 years old, and desperately missed my friend, who once teased me and made me feel adored.
    The man who came back was reserved and given to the “hundred yard stare”
    He and his young wife divorced. There were hushed tones about his violent nightmares.
    Days were bearable. Nights never were.
    He died 4 years ago from complications of agent orange exposure.

  26. Hal Brown  October 9, 2008 at 9:19 am

    Is Petraeus for Obama?

    Here’s the article: “Petraeus Talk Bolsters Obama:
    While McCain Backs Petraeus, General Sounds Notes That Harmonize With Democratic Nominee”.

    We may not know for years, if ever, who he favors. But considering that probably after “my friends” McCain probably said Petraeus the second most often it’s interesting to read what he said about the surge, Iraq and Afghanistan.

    We may know if Obama wins and General Petraeus ends up as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

    As for Gen. David McKiernan, commander of the NATO force in Afghanistan, I doubt his views fit in with McCain’s either:

    But there are countless other differences between Iraq and Afghanistan. In Afghanistan, it’s such a poor country, by any set of metrics you can imagine. A country that has very harsh geography. It’s very difficult to move around, getting back to our reliance on helicopters. It’s a country with very few natural resources, as opposed to the oil revenues that [Iraq] has. There’s very little money to be generated in terms of generated in Afghanistan. The literacy rate — you have a literate society in Iraq, you have a society that has a history of producing civil administrators, technocrats, middle class that are able to run the country in Iraq. You do not have that in Afghanistan. So there’s educational challenges, challenges of human capitol that I mentioned earlier.

    So there are a lot of challenges. What I don’t think is needed — the word that I don’t use in Afghanistan is the word “surge.” There needs to be a sustained commitment of a variety of military and non-military resources, I believe. That’s my advice to winning in Afghanistan. It won’t be a short-term solution. Read more here.

  27. bryan mcclellan  October 9, 2008 at 9:52 am

    I see his slips as subliminal calculated thrusts. If the opponent brings Alzheimer/dementia/PSTD to the table the pity/respect your elders card is in play.

    I don’t buy into this illogical premise but it’s clear to me that McCain and his people are desperate enough to count on voter anger and umbrage, as they have little else with which to do battle.

    What it really shows is the damn the torpedoes recklessness that will rule a McCain ship of state, and alas, a large part of the electorate will not look into the periscope to identify that it is their ignorance that propels the sub surface weaponry back at them.

    One can only wonder what his handlers would say if the gag were removed, and how quickly they will flee if he is unsuccessful.

    Tangentially speaking he has no point of origin, zero chance of finding one in space, and his azimuth is hanging out.

  28. pollchecker  October 9, 2008 at 9:57 am

    We may not know for years, if ever, who he favors

    Hal, considering every single Military General that worked under GW Bush for the past 8 years, NOW RETIRED, stood up on a stage in support of Obama’s candidacy, that should give you a clue of who Petraeus would be supporting. It’s really too bad that part of the Democratic convention did not get more Media play or time for discussion because it was the same night as Obama’s speech.

    And of course, then McCain went out and selected Palin so he could stop the conversation and turn it back towards him. What an egotist McCain is.

    Problem is that these generals won’t speak out and say the truth or anything that contradicts their Commander in Chief out of a sense of duty. Personally, I believe duty to your country is more important than duty to your POTUS but that is not how the military apparently works.

  29. Hal Brown  October 9, 2008 at 10:02 am

    Palin fails Add Cindy

    … Polls are showing that the luster has not only worn off Palin with undecided voters, but she has turned into a liability because of her personal attacks. So what happens when McCain and Palin trying to cast Obama as “the other”, the unpatriotic one who may really be a sleeper agent for the enemy isn’t swinging any voters?

    The answer is, unleash Cindy McCain, she who accuses Obama of running the dirtiest campaign ever, with more of the same:

    “The day that Sen. Obama cast a vote to not to fund my son when he was serving sent a cold chill through my body let me tell you. I would suggest Sen. Obama change shoes with me for just one day. I suggest he take a day and go watch our men and women deploying.”

    I have to say, she’s a decent enough actor if she knows what absolute B.S. this is because she sure looked and sounded like she really believed it.

  30. Ladywolf55  October 9, 2008 at 10:27 am

    Wow, TJ, I applaud and laud you for speaking your mind about what was most definitely a boring so-called debate, full of campaign sound bites and very little substance. You put it very succinctly.

    Those posting about McCain’s obnoxious, odious behavior are correct. but TJ is also correct about having to hold the nose to vote for the lesser of evils. It’s such a shame that we are not allowed more than two to choose from, and that people have forgotten how to really conduct a proper debate.

    I agree with Hal that Obama does appear to have much empathy. But the fact that he voted for the bailout made a huge difference in my opinion of him. As I told my husband, perhaps he voted for it because until he gets into office, he has to appease the corporate masters.. or.. the other side is he is part of them and their takeover of the USA. We’ll soon find out, I imagine.

  31. bryan mcclellan  October 9, 2008 at 10:39 am

    These tactics are near laughable until one realizes that McCain can no longer come from over the top, but merely direct his attack to come bubbling out of the sewer.

    I have a friend who’s wife never smiles unless the point is dripping in irony, half truth, and self recrimination. Her outward persona is a result of years of medicated existence (mostly illegal), and self made tragedy.

    Cindy McCain would be better served if kept back at the ranch in a fog of Seconal and Budweiser, as per her comments, she has been in a daze since she and Johnny got hitched and has obviously no idea of her husbands voting record concerning Veterans.

    I wonder if their sons recognize her/his lies?

  32. Hal Brown  October 9, 2008 at 10:58 am

    Periscope, wrong end…

    that’s the image I got when I read what you wrote.

    I take it you mean his Azimuth thruster is hanging out. I had to look it up.

    Fitting in with the recklessness, the damn the torpedoes, part of McCain’s personality is the revelation today from Sam Stein on HuffPo that Obama has a top notch transition team preparing for the eventuality that he will win. Every modern candidate has had these prior to the election.

    McCain has no such team and there are leaks from his campaign that he believes this is “putting the cart before the horse” and this would jinx his chances. This is the superstitious way many inveterate gamblers think.

    Is this presidential?

  33. pollchecker  October 9, 2008 at 10:59 am

    Palin fails Add Cindy

    When the ship has been hurt bad and is taking on water and in danger of sinking, you throw everything overboard in an attempt to stay on top of the water and moving forward.

    If the damage is bad enough, nothing will help and the ship sinks.

    It appears, the damage is bad…hence Cindy McCain (the pill addict) to the rescue. Great Example of Good Judgement, right?

    I guess the country no longer cares about past behavior when choosing a POTUS. That is a dangerous trend as past behavior is the only reality we have to judge a candidate’s future behavior.

    This is why the David Brooks article is so damaging to McCain. But McCain and HIS people aren’t doing a very good job of keeping the sinking ship moving forward themselves. And more and more people are standing on the sidelines watching the McCain campaign sinking like lead.

  34. Ladywolf55  October 9, 2008 at 11:11 am

    I see in John McCain an overwhelming sense of hubris, of entitlement, and he sees Obama as this young (insert racial epithets here) taking what he sees as HIS rightful position. He can hardly control his rage, brought on by years of hubris and rage against himself for what he allowed himself to do in Viet Nam in order to survive.

    This man is a friend of the Bush family. He visits them in their Maine family compound. He is one of the East Coast elitists who have taken over our country. He is one of them, bred into his very bone marrow.

    He gave in to his torturers in Viet Nam. That is something he also has deep shame for, as he knows his father and grandfather would not have done that. McCain blew off his education, and again, had a sense of hubris during that time, based on his family’s military legacy, which deep down, he knows he didn’t live up to. He most likely feels that attaining the Presidency would make up for what he feels he did to shame his ancestors.

    Couple that with increasing dementia due to bad health and old age, and you have one very dangerous individual on your hands. And that’s my .02 on that subject.

  35. Tinker  October 9, 2008 at 11:16 am

    My husband heard this from a caller on a radio talk show yesterday and we both thought it hilarious and right on the money.

    He said that Tuesday night at the debate John McCain looked like Yosemite Sam stalking around and P-O’d because his dynamite didn’t go off!

  36. bryan mcclellan  October 9, 2008 at 11:47 am

    To clarify, the people who choose to ship with Johnny will have to take over the bridge when they discover he’s out cold on the wheel house floor. They surely will be terrorized when the outgoing salvo takes a 180 in the eyepiece and bears down on them with proximity fuses armed.

    Azimuth is in reference to his angle of attack and it’s apparent lack of ricocheting or establishing a viable point of measure thus going on endlessly into the dark entropy from which it originated.

    The thruster is also applicable. Thanks.

    Sam Steins comment should be trumpeted throughout the media, it’s very relevant to the experience argument.

  37. sherry  October 9, 2008 at 11:45 am

    I hope you are not suggesting the man who gave his acceptance speech amid Greek columns is without hubris.
    $5 million was the cost for the arena for all his showmanship. When I think back on that, it’s hard for me to believe he is terribly empathetic to the masses.
    Anyone who runs for POTUS has to be pretty full of himself, though I must confess the Berlin speech and the Greek columns were just a tad over the top. Bear in mind, after a mere 143 days in the US Senate, he suddenly felt qualified for top job.
    At least Michelle is no longer dressing like Jackie O.

  38. Ann  October 9, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    “I believe what he and Palin are doing at their rallies is nothing short of criminally inciting violence, and they should be arrested and charged with such. They are the lowest of the low.”
    I agree with you it is getting to dangerous and incuting violence. It is scary when a man with the experience that Senator McCan would do such a thing. I thought so much better of him than that. I don’t agree with him but I did respect the man. It is just showing how spoiled and dangerous he is if he doesn’t get his way. We don’t need that in our country right now we need to fix things not destroy them worst. I am afraid of this inciting violence it is getting mean and bad. Lets hope Senator McCane is straighten up by the Republicans before it gets worst. I wish no harm on anyone running but there are those that love that kind of thing. Palin is dangerous and she gets worst every day. It is so wrong to do what they are doing.

    Ann

  39. Ladywolf55  October 9, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    tsk, tsk, tsk……..sour grapes?

    Obama has the intellect and classy behavior to DESERVE some hubris. McCain does not. If others did not feel he was qualified for that “top job” he wouldn’t be the nominee, period.

    Same for McCain, but the difference is, his follower’s belief in him was severely misplaced.

  40. sherry  October 9, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    what is being done to incite violence, specifics please.
    Will you site a reference?

  41. Hal Brown  October 9, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    McCain a rageaholic?

    If you thought Doug Thompson’s experience with John McCain (read “McCain: racist, bigot & homophobe” (91,273 readers so far), and you don’t mind being really really worried about this man becoming president, check this out: “McCain Exploded With Rage During Gambling Outing”.

  42. sherry  October 9, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Military rules strictly prohibit the endorsement of any candidate.
    Call McCain an egoist, if you must. In political circles, it’s called strategy. There were a lot of hurt feelings from Hillary supporters who will never vote for Obama. McCain attempted to capitalize on that.
    He said he didn’t need them anyway.

  43. sherry  October 8, 2008 at 9:15 am

    angry and rusty is subjective. Content is not.
    As everyone on this board knows by now, I do not support Obama, but he won. Hands down.
    He has a clear command of this issues, though I will give McCain points on foreign policy. The rest was Obama’s.
    McCain the deregulator, wants to buy mortgages so the average Joe can stay in his house. Wonderful. It’s only $300 bn we don’t have, but what’s a few billion among friends?
    McCain is clueless about the economy. Clueless.
    I don’t believe Obama is an economic savior, because regardless of who is in the white house, we are in for a bumpy ride.
    I disagreed the economy is the fault of Bush. No doubt, he had a huge hand in it, but we have had failed policies for decades, and as Obama’s favorite preacher says, “the chickens have come home to roost”
    Neither wanted to say the ugly truth, the economy is going to get worse before it gets better.
    But overall, Obama won the debate. He looked like the man in charge. He was pretty cool about it too.

  44. Helen Rainier  October 8, 2008 at 9:45 am

    Sherry,

    I’m curious — why would you give McCain points on foreign policy? He has made so many factual goofs — such as Iraq and Afghanistan sharing a border, doesn’t know that the Sunni and Shia are two different branches of the Muslim faith, thinks Czechoslovakia still exists as a country, and that Spain is in South America and is not even aware that Spain is a NATO ally of ours.

    What foreign policy experience are you referring to? It seems evident that Obama has a much better grasp of the basics on nearly all of the issues.

    In many ways, you seem to be playing the McCain “I was a POW” card except yours is “I do not support Obama.” Frankly, I don’t give a rat’s butt if you don’t, but why do you think it necessary to remind everyone here of that fact, figuratively, each time you post?

    Do you really think McCain is less of a threat to this country than Obama? Have you listened to the rhetoric of McCain and Palin on the campaign trail? They are practically inviting their supporters to do physical harm to Obama.

    Do you think they (McCain/Palin) are good examples of the Christianity they claim to espouse? Are they good examples of enlightening thinking? Are they good examples of an ability to think critically and to analyze carefully based on facts and not their personal ideological beliefs? Are they concerned about the overall welfare of the country at large?

    Section deleted by moderator. Just keep any and all personal references out. Next time the entire post goes.

  45. Ladywolf55  October 8, 2008 at 10:20 am

    Helen, I concur with what you just stated, and I like the way you said it.

    Sherry, if it hasn’t already occurred to you, McCain would no more follow up on buying mortgages than I can be an East Coast elitist. He was PANDERING to the middle class to try to whip up votes, nothing more. The man is shameless.

    I believe what he and Palin are doing at their rallies is nothing short of criminally inciting violence, and they should be arrested and charged with such. They are the lowest of the low.

  46. Harve3  October 8, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    Painting with a broad brush here. Pls provide examples of these alleged incitements to “physical harm”. TIA

    Do you really think McCain is less of a threat to this country than Obama? Have you listened to the rhetoric of McCain and Palin on the campaign trail? They are practically inviting their supporters to do physical harm to Obama.

    Hill Country Weisenheimer

  47. Hal Brown  October 8, 2008 at 10:18 am

    Let’s continue our debate with but just a reminder, don’t get personal with each other.

  48. Harve3  October 8, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    Is it “out of bounds” to make a civil request to a fellow poster; OBTW, what was “personal” in that request?

    Hill Country Weisenheimer

  49. Ladywolf55  October 8, 2008 at 10:23 am

    Sorry Hal, I was posting my post to Helen while you were posting your reminder. I don’t mean to be personal, but I vehemently disagree with Sherry’s position.

  50. Hal Brown  October 8, 2008 at 10:49 am

    No problem, debate each others positions, disagree with each other, point and counter-point makes for an interesting comment thread. I think you and almost all of our regulars understand where to draw the lines on getting into personal attacks. You won’t use Palin and McCain as models of decorum.

    Many readers who don’t post return to all of our columns and blogs just to keep up on the new comments.

  51. Malibu  October 8, 2008 at 10:27 am

    The debate last night showed me that Senator Obama is a negotiator to the core and would approach nations like Pakistan and even Iran with an open dialog of understanding.

    Mr. Brown, we have seen a Republican President run our government and even our foreign wars behind a closed door of secrecy. President Bush 41 probably could not find Iran, Aghanistan or Pakistan on a map even after 9/11. Since the end of WW2, our GOP has shown little interest in world events and continued to build up the Military Industrial Complex.

    9/11 brought the attack that many jouralists and FBI agents warned about but it seems as if the Bush/Cheney government does not read well enough to catch the warnings.

    Senator McCain believes he knows it all and will never listen to anyone and that is the most dangerous kind of President we could have at this time. He sent chills down my spine last night during the debate as I can see a war continue in the Middle East and a possible civil war at home when the women will lose their choice of family size and gays will have to return to the closet.

    Maybe it is time we elected a minority as they understand more than the great white Christian men, what it is like to live below the level of equality in America.

    Malcolm

  52. Hal Brown  October 8, 2008 at 10:59 am

    Minority or not, I think Obama has real empathy. Some may come from the facts of his upbringing but mostly this comes from how you were raised not the circumstances under which you were raised.

    I just thought of a way to judge candidates quite different from the “who you’d rather have a beer with”.

    I’ll call it the apple tree on the property line test.

    Say you have an apple tree growing right on the property line between you and your neighbor. You love the tree, the shade, and love the apples. Your neighbor doesn’t want the shade and doesn’t like apples, so he wants to cut down all the branches and roots on his property.

    Who would you want to try to negotiate a compromise with, Obama or McCain?

    I think I’ll put this as a footnote to the column.

  53. RSW  October 8, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    First of all, President 41 could, indeed find Iran. Think Iran Contra. Not his inbred offspring (43), though.

    I, too, believe that Obama will be a diplomat; talk is cheap compared to force, and generally brings satisfactory results. I only hope that he’ll be willing to “negotiate” when it comes to Israel.

    Oldernwiser

  54. sherry  October 8, 2008 at 10:55 am

    Hal, I said Obama won and I still get crucified.
    My issue with Obama is that he is willing to sit down with Iran with no pre conditions, though he has waffled on that.
    He voted against the surge, which I was also opposed, but it worked and Obama is unwilling to admit that.
    The fact that Brezinski is one of his policy advisors just gives me the creeps.

  55. Hal Brown  October 8, 2008 at 11:08 am

    I am trying to keep our discourse with each other civil. No crucifixion of community members are permitted. Further, lets not veer off into NEGATIVE personal asides. I just deleted several comments that while there was legitimate content there were reference to other posters that seem to beg for a personal retort.

  56. ECT.  October 8, 2008 at 11:38 pm

    ECT.

    Sherry I just had to respond to your feelings of being crucified.
    As a 75 year old woman..I have met many, many people across this small planet of ours. Nothing gets people going in all directions as politics and religion does. Family members squabble, neighbours turn against one another. And some citizens of ALL countries get down right nasty. Trying to convince other citizens who to vote for and why.
    You gave an honest opinion as to who won the debate. I admire that in you. Many others do not stand as tall as you can…I’m thinking Pat Buchan here { sorry, I think I’ve spelt that gents name wrong }. Pat is a Republican that saw McCain winning the debate by an very high score.

    In regards to your objection regarding Obama’s willingness to sit down and speak with Iran. It is called DIPLOMACY. It was once used by the Presidents of USA. However, Mr Bush does not appear to believe in this needed component in dealing with OTHER Countries. Obama has stated on several ocassions that he is willing to sit and talk with other countries…with pre conditions in place.

    In regards to the surge…true Obama did not vote for it. But there are videos now of him saying it did work..and he gave it high praise.

    However, I believe you should also note. The surge worked because more of your money is making it work. The Sumni and Shia branches of the Muslim Faith have been involved in a civil war for many years. USA Government had agreed to reward each side that laid down their weapons. On giving up their weapons they were paid a certain sum of money. There are also videos of both branches giving up there weapons to USA Military. There is also a News article that said they had not been paid that sum of money as of two weeks ago. Now, I have to ask you Sherry…will civil war return between these two branch’s of the Muslim religion once the good citizens of the USA say..no more pay outs…they need to learn to get along.

    Sherry take it from a woman who has seen too many wars. A man with the diplomatic skills and the intelligence that Obama has shown the world at large…are the ones needed in todays events of the world. We citizens are only a small part of our planet.

  57. pollchecker  October 8, 2008 at 10:58 am

    Politics of Hate, Hal? Or rather, perhaps, more like the Politics of fear?

    Doesn’t fear beget hate? Doesn’t hate beget contempt and/or disdain?

    Perhaps that would explain McCain’s attitude towards Obama last night.

    Perhaps that is why McCain/Palin keep running their contemptuous ads in areas where the voting populace are people who are NOT smarter than 5th graders (wink, wink).

    Their problem is that despite the rhetoric, these debates clearly show who is ready and capable of being Presidential, and uniting the country towards rebuilding what GW Bush has torn down in his 8 years and his name is NOT John McCain. No, it the other guy — that one, eh the Obama guy.

  58. sherry  October 8, 2008 at 11:09 am

    I remember when Hillary and Obama were in competing. The talking heads suggested Hillary supporters were blue collar, uneducated, earning under 50K. Wink, wink, if you aren’t voting for Obama, you must be dumb as hell.
    Insulting the electorate doesn’t work well either.
    Obama is running some pretty nasty ads here in WV as well. Good luck to him. He has insulted the entire state.
    They don’t really care what he says now, even if he is the better candidate.

  59. RealityBytes  October 8, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    Sherry, you have every right to say your piece as much as anyone else (even though I think you’re wrong :). That’s what helps all of us keep learning more while honing our arguments as we seek the truth. And, thank you for keeping it civil, especially despite what may seem like overwhelming odds.

    To your point here, I also dislike ‘nasty’ campaigning… It is to John McCain’s credit that he has declared pastor Wright ‘off-limits’, but it is to their shame that Palin has completely mischaracterized Obama’s non-links to Ayers. I don’t particularly care for the Obama team’s use of the ‘Keating 5′ in response (McCain made a mistake, he admitted it, and he tried to extricate himself from the situation before anyone even called him on it), but it’s somewhat understandable in light of what McCain-Palin has been doing. (Although, personally I would have brought up McCain’s actual cozy relationship to G Gordon Liddy as a more damning and relevant reply, but that’s just me)

    Anyway, you say here that the ‘talking heads’ were talking down to the electorate, and I absolutely agree – but that wasn’t Obama’s staff, or Obama himself. For the most part, I haven’t recalled seeing any of that from the campaign… are these ‘nasty ads’ you speak of really nasty in a lying or personal sort of way, or are they just attempts to expose facts and ideas with which you disagree? If you could post a link to some examples, I would be very interested to see them myself, and join you in condemning them if they are ‘nasty’ as you say. Thanks.

  60. sherry  October 8, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    nice article on nasty ad from Times Online
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article4570652.ece
    That said, Obama certainly didn’t call off the dogs regarding the talking heads. BSNBC is solidly in the tank for Obama and I don’t think he realized they may be creating a backlash for him.
    If Obama disagreed with the talking heads, he could have said so at any time, but didn’t.
    Thanks for your civility. It is much appreciated.

  61. sherry  October 9, 2008 at 2:35 am

    Thank you so much for your kind comments.
    Please allow me to clarify regarding negotiations with Iran. I agree we need diplomacy. O do we ever!
    Usually, when engaging an enemy (this is pre Bush of course), we typically engaged lower level diplomats and certain pre conditions were agreed upon prior to the POTUS becoming involved in direct negotiations.
    The POTUS lends a degree of legitimacy, which should only be extended when conditions are met.
    I apologize. I should have been clearer with that statement.
    Regarding the civil war, which is a foregone conclusion:
    When we are gone, the only thing that will keep the peace among the factions is a common enemy. Failing that, it’s back to war.
    Saddam ruled with a cruel, iron fist. He was the common enemy and he was the reason the factions weren’t killing each other. Saddam was an equal opportunity killer. Suffice it to say the Geneva Conventions were of no concern to him.
    Biden wanted to split Iraq in three areas. It is unpopular, but probably the most workable plan. I believe Biden has backed off that in light of the surge.
    Too bad.

  62. sherry  October 9, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    I did check out LadyWolf’s references. If she were in a court of law, it may be suggested she is assuming facts not in evidence.
    While the rhetoric was pretty rough, there is nothing to indicate anyone wished for violence or was calling for harm to come to Obama/Biden.
    It is wrong to suggest only the ignorant, uneducated rednecks would attend a GOP rally.
    I have millionaire friends who are GOP and I have non millionaire friends who are dems, with varying levels of education.
    While some hurled racial insults, it would be grossly unfair to paint the entire rally with such a broad, toxic brush.
    And no I don’t read HuffPo, for the same reason I don’t read World Net Daily.

  63. Ladywolf55  October 9, 2008 at 4:46 pm

    Sarah Palin’s inflammatory remarks were on video, Sherry. That is not “facts not in evidence”. If you watch the news, they also had the hecklers on video screaming “Treason! and Kill Him!”. I watched them, and heard it with my own ears. That’s not “Facts assumed”.

    I did not say only uneducated rednecks attended the GOP rally. What I was saying is that uneducated rednecks at the rally were the ones screaming such tripe. I can’t imagine an educated person stooping so low as to scream such a thing. But frankly, I wouldn’t put anything past a Republican, if the truth be known. We’ve had 8 long years of Cheney and Bush for an example what they’re capable of.

  64. Hal Brown  October 9, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    McCain a Rageaholic?

    Read the definition here and watch the video.

  65. sherry  October 9, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Hal, I really thought I was going to see McCain raging on tape. This is hearsay.

  66. Harve3  October 9, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    Touche’, as they say! Good on you Sherry.

    Hill Country Weisenheimer

  67. almandine  October 9, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    Yeah, this type of personal attack has to stop.

    The nerve.

  68. Hal Brown  October 9, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    McCain/Palin on low dangerous road…

    Examples from the past day or so:

    An interesting article by Robert Parry:

    “McCain-Palin Put ‘Country Last’” begins:

    Once Barack Obama emerged as a viable candidate for President – given the nation’s grim history of violence toward African-American political figures – the worries began about Obama’s safety, and they have not gone away.

    Now, with the McCain-Palin campaign’s recent decision to go intensely negative on Obama, those risks appear to be growing, putting added pressure on the Secret Service detail assigned to protect Obama.

    In particular, Sarah Palin’s reckless talk about Obama “palling around with terrorists” has helped validate the anti-Obama hate that has long obsessed the American Right. She also accused Obama of insulting American troops in Afghanistan, a twisting of Obama’s words that was then reprised in a McCain-Palin attack ad.
    – Continued

    There are unbalanced people who will assume that people they look to as heroes will thanks them for committing acts of violence which they believe they are doing on their behalf. There are also seriously mentally ill people who will believe that they are hearing actual commands to commit violent acts.

    One of McCain’s new ad paints a threatening picture of Ayers, twice says he and Obama are friends, and ends with “Americans say, ‘where’s the truth, Barack?’ Barack Obama. Too risky for America.” (View and read the ad here.) Put in the context of implying he’s not one of us and could be a Muslim and of course, he is black, and maybe a terrorist, and so on, an ad like this easily could “speak” directly to someone who believes McCain wants them to “save America” from this risk.

    It wasn’t bad enough that there are mentally ill racists out there who have fantasies of going down in history as a white supremacist martyr.

    Here’s an article from a New York newspaper entitled “Karl Rove Bigotry Takes Over McCain Campaign” It begins:

    Republican Presidential candidate Sen. John McCain and his Vice Presidential candidate, Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, have realized they are losing this election and in an attempt to stay afloat, they have sunk this year’s presidential campaign to become the trashiest campaign in recent memory.

    Angry that other Americans are heavily supporting his opponent Sen. Barack Obama, of Illinois. Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin have now employed rightwing Ku Klux Klan hatred, racism, bigotry and have even encouraged their supporters to kill Sen. Barack Obama with rhetoric that’s clearly meant to incite. – continued

    In fact what is occurring now is far worse than what Rove and the Swift Boat Vets did to Kerry it isn’t in the same league.

    The Burlington Free Press in an editorial says this about Palin’s rhetoric: “Anyone willing to incite this kind of fear and harness this degree of hate for political gain has no business on the national political stage, especially as a candidate for vice president of a major political party, let alone serve in high office. LINK

    It goes on and on but I’ll end for now with a report from AFP about the McCain/Palin rally today in Wisconsin. It begins:

    Inflammatory Republican rallies raise concerns

    3 hours ago

    WAUKESHA, Wisconsin (AFP) — Shouts of “terrorist” and “treason” aimed at Barack Obama have echoed around Republican rallies, whipping up into alarming, hate-filled frenzies against the Democratic White House hopeful.

    Republican presidential nominee John McCain has taken to asking, “Who is the real Barack Obama?” at rallies this week, leading one supporter in Pennsylvania, a blue-collar battleground state to shout back, “he is a bomb.”

    Before the rally, local Republican leader Bill Platt warmed up the crowd by several times referring to “Barack Hussein Obama,” focusing on the Illinois senator’s middle name, trying to highlight his differences with other Americans.

    Chants of “Nobama, Nobama” mingled with cries of “terrorist,” as one banner in the crowd declared: “Go ahead, let the dogs out.” – continued

  69. sherry  October 9, 2008 at 6:09 pm

    Ruffnecks’ comments at a rally do not constitute inciting violence. The WaPo article never suggested anyone was attempting to incite violence.
    Didn’t read HuffPo. See above comment.
    No one has advocated violence in any way against them.
    There is a lot of hot air.Lot of angry people. That does not suggest the McCain/Palin team is inciting violence.
    Face it you are tired of the terrorist rhetoric. Apparently, there is a market for it. They will continue no doubt.

  70. sherry  October 9, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    I didn’t personally see this, but a friend called to say a man from the Wisconsin crowd grabbed a mike, proceeded to say he was angry, not about the economy, but the socialists in DC. The crowd was on its feet, when the mike grabber told them to sit down, McCain attempted to say something, he told MCCAIN to shut up. This fella was determined to have his say.
    People are angry. When it was Hill against Obama, Al Sharpton was on BSNBC saying if Obama wasn’t chosen there would be riots in the street.
    Sadly, there probably will be anyway, regardless of who wins.
    There is an old Irish saying which is: he who wields the sword never wears the crown.
    McCain is digging himself a deep, deep hole. He is toast.

  71. bryan mcclellan  October 9, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    I thought the aside was directed towards another poster. Hal

    Hey no snark here. Comment was directed to the air surrounding Mr& Mrs McCain whom in my view are coupled by convenience rather than mutual admiration, all while driven by the sense that total power is still not enough without total annihilation of ones enemy by whatever means necessary.

    This behavior proves the tactics are well thought out and that they could give a damn if we know they are lying or not. Prime example: our current administration.

  72. adb8917  October 9, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    Any truth the the rumor that McCain has been channeling Henry II? “Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?”

    Snide comments aside, the increasing economic uncertainty in the world is creating an uptick in abusive behaviors, the collapse of large and small businesses, and more workers losing jobs and health benefits. Public anger is palpable.

    It doesn’t take much to fuel the bloodlust of a mob and just as King Henry said that he gave no orders for Thomas Becket’s assassination, McCain and Palin can claim ‘plausible deniability’ if something happens to Barack Obama.

    False claims in political advertising come without sanctions because there is neither the political will to require truth telling nor the energy to enforce laws for lying; but even incidentally inciting violence is not free speech. It is actionable and punishable by law.

    It may be time for an independent truth commission to file peace bonds against these perpetrators.

    ADB

  73. Hal Brown  October 9, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    Sometimes some of you amaze me… Thomas Becket… who would have thought…

    of course there isn’t much resemblance between McCain and Henry II. Too bad…

    What we have to be concerned about is that some wacko will think that he is channeling one of the knights that murdered Becket in the most brutal fashion.

  74. sherry  October 9, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    Brian, why do people immediately target the intimacy regarding marriage in a political fight? We went thru this with the Clintons. This is not a comment to you personally, understand, it is just phenomonon I noticed since the Clinton scandal.
    We don’t know what brought them together or why they stay together. Cindy is being the dutiful wife/baracuda. Nothing personal. Michelle threw her jabs in the early days and it cost Obama. She went off to soften her image and now would never, ever throw jabs. Her husband is the campaigner. She is doling out concern and compassion al la Laura Bush. eww. Did I just write that?
    If McCain was going to fight this dirty, he should have had the way down the lines to do it. This crap of the guy introducing MCCain using the middle name, especially after MCCain agreed not to is disgraceful. Nothing less.
    Where is his honor?

  75. Ladywolf55  October 10, 2008 at 1:12 am

    You know, Sherry, you’re right. I do remember Michelle being a LOT stronger in her speech and manner, just before the “Proud of my country” incident. Even though it was a costly mistake, I remember thinking at the time that I know just how she feels. It’s been a really long time since I’ve felt any pride in the USA. Maybe we deserve to go down in flames for the way we’ve treated others. There’s no doubt we’ve been arrogant and too full of misplaced pride.

    I saw Michelle on Larry King the other night. For her to claim there was absolutely no anger with Sarah Palin for what she’s been saying, I thought: “Either this woman is in some serious denial, or she’s a cut above any other woman I know of.” I sure would hate to see her go the way Laura Bush went, zonked out and becoming just an empty bobbing head for her husband. I somehow can’t see Michelle allowing herself to become that. We can always hope.

    In any case, I want to apologize to you for being so angry earlier today. Things are getting a bit tense and I believe I’m not immune to the tension in the air. I don’t wish to contribute to an air of mean-spirit in this forum. I have always liked CHB and it’s people, and the way they speak plainly of what we all know to be happening to our country. I think we’re all going to be heading into some very rough times in this country. None of us can stand to lose friends or comrades.

    Teresa

  76. sherry  October 9, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    The level of anger out there is frightening. People are fearful.
    I can’t imagine why anyone would want to be POTUS now.
    The economy is in flames. The uncertainty gives a whole new meaning to Obama’s declaration of “silly season” Wow. If he thought it was silly then…..

  77. Hal Brown  October 9, 2008 at 8:28 pm

    More from YouTube:

    McCain/Palin supporters express their opinions about Obama being a terrorist.

    In line at a McCain/Palin rally…

    “Get a job, socialist communist, Obamas a terrorist, don’t you know that, commie faggot, go home, Bill Ayers scumbag, get a job (to interviewer), Barack sleazy scum of the earth, get a job, why aren’t you at work, go to Russia, Obama registers dead people buses dead people from state to state, (is Obama an american?) I don’t know what he is” plus singing the first verse of GOD Bless America… the most mild was Obama boooo.

  78. bryan mcclellan  October 9, 2008 at 9:14 pm

    Sherry, My perception of the McCains stems from the Sturgis rally, until then I had some respect for their privacy but Johns actions and words at the event prove that he does not respect his wife and woman in general. Mrs McCains response (a coy smile) seemed to reflect agreement with the old barefoot and pregnant assertion. While Macho man had the crowd in a dither wondering about her rack and not his record, I saw a compliance in her eyes that belittles all the fine and respectable women I have ever known, especially my dear wife.

    I’m a little old fashioned, in that you can call me anything you want but you had best leave the woman in my life out of it.

    If the candidate is right for the job I don’t care if their spouse is an alien from the vast reaches of space, I’m not voting for the fact that honey has pretty tentacles. The focus should be solely on the candidate.

    In the case of the Clintons and McCains my opinion is worth about two squirts of duck doo doo, but I do know this;
    I was taught to respect and seek the council of the fair sex, not to curry favor but for common sense minus the lecture.Men beat around the bush, Ladies tell it like it is.This could be the fundamental thing that keeps them together, but what a cold existence it must be.

    I’ll never understand a relationship of convenience or tolerance and feel that it lessens the individuals inner worth giving cause to aberrant behavior both public and private.

    Maybe Hal could shed some light on this as I feel this is what gives rise to Bill and Johns famous tempers.

  79. Hal Brown  October 9, 2008 at 9:25 pm

    Script for the new McCain ad to be released tomorrow in battleground states.

    The Chicago Way. Shady politics.
    That’s Barack Obama’s training.
    His teachers?
    Tony Rezko convicted of corruption, money laundering, aiding and abetting bribery.
    Rezko got Obama in on a shady land deal.
    William Daley. Heir to the Chicago machine. A top Obama advisor.
    And William Ayers. Leader of a terrorist group that bombed the US Capitol.
    Obama’s first campaign was launched at a gathering at Mr. Ayers’s home.
    There’s more you need to know.

    I wonder what kind of swing voters they expect this to reach. Who with an IQ above that of a chicken (see above videos) would believe that Obama, who went to Occidental College for two years, then transferred and graduated from Columbia University. He majored in political science with a specialization in international relations as an undergraduate, and got his law degree at Harvard where he was editor of the law review. And a reasonably intelligent undecided voter is supposed to believe he got any, let alone all, of his political training from these four?

    We’ve dealt with debunking the Ayers friendship, and there’s no evidence of Ayers as a political mentor.

    What’s the so-called “shady” land deal Rezko helped Obama with? I thought that was already dismissed as a common business transaction for someone of Obama’s income.

    Are we to believe that because the current Mayor Daley is literally the heir of his father, he is running Chicago the same way?

    These Republican ads are aimed at the ignorant, and the gullible, at the prejudiced, but no surprise as McCain gave his campaign over to Rove disciples.

  80. sherry  October 9, 2008 at 9:33 pm

    Hal the hole McCain was digging has now become a grave. Your man is in.
    Uncork the champagne.

  81. bryan mcclellan  October 9, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    Forgive the sidetrack please, IQ of a chicken reminds me of my youth. We learned how to hypnotize chickens by laying them down on their breast and with a corn cob lightly drawing a line in the dirt in front of their beak to get their attention, then after they became calm we would lay the cob down in the line and it would render them motionless until something spooked them. Viola,hypnotized chicken.

    My younger brother (we were about 10 & 6) decided to have a contest so we started in and had chickens laying all over the yard in no time flat (had to lock the dog up of course).

    Dad came home from working the fields and really gave it to us, but I remember clearly Mom looking out the porch window with a huge smile on her face and to this day we still argue who won.

    Have we just awakened, and will the rest of America, from a cob induced slumber? I hope so.

  82. sherry  October 9, 2008 at 11:51 pm

    The hysteria reminds me of my mother a couple of weeks ago. She is an iron lady. She is the matriarch, always in charge, always together.
    Her boyfriend died. He had been ill for several weeks in a hospital ICU. Mom refused to believe he could actually die.
    When she received the news, she was hysterical for a few moments, and then she had a complete breakdown?? By the time I arrived at the hospital, she didn’t recognize me.She just kept asking about her friend. This only lasted about 12 hours and she was back to her iron lady self.
    An evaluating psychiatrist said she had seen one case in her career and as hard as it was to believe, she would be ok within hours. Her mind simply couldn’t handle the grief. It was on overload. Adavan (sp) is an amazing drug.
    This past week reminds me of my mother. We have been on sensory overload for a while. Then we had a collective meltdown. There was this “bailout” many protested but passed anyway. That shocked us, but it was nothing that became the disaster that was the markets every day this week.
    Eviction has become so bad, a sheriff in Chicago is refusing to process them. Especially when he discovered he was evicting renters who had paid on time. Cheers to the cop. The one guy who actually chose to protect those he serves. Finally. One hero. Good bless him and may there be many more.
    Unlike my mother, we will not be whole again in 48 hours. That’s the worst part. We have no idea where this is going to end. No idea where the bottom is.

  83. Ladywolf55  October 10, 2008 at 1:33 am

    Once again, Sherry, you hit the nail on the head. You’re batting average is rising swiftly today. ;-)

    As I was saying to my husband earlier this evening, “Remember four years… or even eight years ago when we started telling people this was going to happen? They told me, my husband, that we were nuts. Even my brother said at the time, that Doug T. and I were “tin foil hats”.

    My brother’s not doing too much smirking now.. he’s too worried about losing his home. And my daughter is losing money from her MM accounts by the truckload, even though I warned her over a year ago to move it. They wouldn’t believe……”Ooooooooooooh… Mr. Bill, too late!”

    BTW, my condolences to your Mother. It’s always so hard to lose those we love to the great enemy, death. I truly have empathy for people in those circumstances.

  84. bryan mcclellan  October 10, 2008 at 1:40 am

    Double up on the hugs for your Mom Sherry, it’s a tried and true recipe to cure the blues.Good luck to us all.

  85. DejaVuAllOver  October 10, 2008 at 2:07 am

    Nice piece, Hal. The beauty of history is that it really doesn’t care if certain people end up looking like complete imbeciles. The more wrong an egotist is, the louder she (or he) gets. And certainly the best way to discredit an egomaniac is to let her (or him) speak. Long live the Internet and egalitarian justice.

  86. Hal Brown  October 10, 2008 at 8:02 am

    The Bradley Effect is still the big unknown.

    Most CHB readers know about it but here’s a link.

    Because the majority of new voters are for Obama, today’s CHB headline article may be significant too.

    I will not be surprised at all if McCain wins, even with a significant electoral college margin.

  87. Hal Brown  October 10, 2008 at 8:11 am

    I’m sorry about your mother and her loss and thanks for trusting our community to share it here.

    On the sheriff, he is a hero showing the meaning of “to protect and to serve” is more then rushing in with guns drawn.

    Paul Krugman who is an economics professor at Princeton as well as a New York Times OpEd columnist writes on the what he thinks should be done here, and the editorial board of the Times has also weighed in with their suggestion.

    I know next to nothing about economics but common sense and fairness would seem to dictate that if we as taxpayers put money into banks, investment companies and other lenders we should also assume some of the benefits of ownership if they do well as a result.

  88. Hal Brown  October 10, 2008 at 8:25 am

    For those who didn’t see these on the previous comments page I’m putting these YouTube videos here. I know these are edited and the people interviewed represent a minority of McCain/Palin supporters… or I hope that is the case.

    However the reactions of the crowds at the McCain and Palin rallies compared to the Obama and Biden rallies are very different.

    McCain/Palin supporters express their opinions about Obama being a terrorist.

    In line at a McCain/Palin rally…

    “Get a job, socialist communist, Obamas a terrorist, don’t you know that, commie faggot, go home, Bill Ayers scumbag, get a job (to interviewer), Barack sleazy scum of the earth, get a job, why aren’t you at work, go to Russia, Obama registers dead people buses dead people from state to state, (is Obama an american?) I don’t know what he is” plus singing the first verse of GOD Bless America… the most mild was Obama boooo.

    If some of these people turned up at an Obama event and I was in the Secret Service I would be very concerned.

  89. sherry  October 10, 2008 at 8:46 am

    Hal, had you posted that 3 weeks ago, I’d be feeling the glow.
    That said, I believe Americans are beyond panic and fear. It’s pretty much my Mama’s Meltdown.
    McCain’s rhetoric just adds to the storm. There is no salve there.
    I believe the Bradley effect may play somewhat, but not significantly.

  90. sherry  October 10, 2008 at 8:52 am

    Thanks LadyWolfe. Mom’s doing great. Back to her bossy self!
    When people told me I was nuts for bailing on the stock market, people told me I was nuts.
    I have a home I own outright, and when the condo sells, I am debt free. It’s been a process, but one I am glad I chose.
    My parents were children of the Great Depression. They saw the warning signs when Wall Street was still partying.
    If we could just see bottom, I believe we would feel so much better. A sense of control if you will.

  91. Hal Brown  October 10, 2008 at 4:30 pm

    “People need to understand, for moral reasons and the protection of our civil society, the differences with Senator Obama are ideological, based on clear differences on policy and a lack of experience compared to Senator McCain. And from a purely practical political vantage point, please find me a swing voter, an undecided independent, or a torn female voter that finds an angry mob mentality attractive.” This is from John Weaver, He was McCain’s “former top strategist. described as one of McCain’s “closest advisers” and “an architect of McCain’s ‘Straight Talk Express,’ Heleft the McCain campaign in July 2007, along with campaign manager Terry Nelson, political director Rob Jesmer, and deputy campaign manager Reed Galen..” Reference I believe these staffers were replaced with the current Rove group.

    At a McCain rally yesterday:

    Questioner: I’m mad. I’m really mad. And what’s gonna surprise you, it’s not the economy. It’s the socialists taking over our country. [applause] Sit down, I’m not done! Thank you. Let me finish, please. [laughter]

    McCain: Excuse me. [laughter]

    Questioner: Thank you. I think its so important in today’s country to see what we are missing and what’s really going on. When you have an Obama, Pelosi, and the rest of the hooligans up there gonna run this country, we gotta have our head examined. It’s time that you two are representing us, and we are mad! So go get em! [applause, chants of USA!]

    McCain: Well, I think I got the message. [laughter] Could I just say, the gentleman is right…

    The following is from David Gergen, who was an adviser to the Nixon, Ford, and Reagan administrations, a campaign staffer for George H.W. Bush’s 1980 presidential campaign, and as a self-proclaimed independent, also an adviser to the Clinton administration. He made the comment on Anderson Cooper on CNN last night.

    “One of the most striking things we’ve seen in the last few day, we have seen it at the Palin rallies and we saw it at the McCain rally today. And we saw it to a considerable degree during the rescue package legislation. There is a free-floating sort of whipping-around anger that could really lead to some violence. And I think we’re not far from that.
    I really worry when we get people — when you get the kind of rhetoric that you’re getting at these rallies now.I think it’s really imperative the candidates try to calm people down.”

    Reference

  92. sherry  October 11, 2008 at 12:07 am

    McCain apparently got the memo. He said Obama was a decent guy and requested people be respectful.
    “whipping around anger” is a perfect term to describe what’s going on.
    Obama stood a foot taller today when he ageed with McCain to shelf the rule that people 70 1/2 take the mandatory withdrawals from their IRA’s.
    I always thought that was a pretty stupid rule anyway. My father didn’t need his at 70 1/2, but in the last 6 months of his life, he did.

  93. adb8917  October 11, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    There was something lurking around the edges when I first watched the clips but couldn’t quite identify it. On a second viewing it struck me. The refrain ‘God Bless America’ sung by angry and self-isolating people was a pure ‘Deer Hunter’ moment — and theater of the absurd.

    The problem is that 40 years later it’s not just an expensive, wrongheaded and destructive war, but add a devastated economy and the willful corruption of the truth and you have a template for riots, murder, and martial law.

    At this rate, even if the McCain-Palin ticket were to pull a rabbit out of their ‘hats’ and win, they’d have an near impossible job of governing the mob they are creating. We do not need a return to the ‘Know Nothing Party’ and lynch law.

    It is a net positive that John McCain has called on the extremist voices to tone it down. It’s a pity his campaign staff are ignoring his message.

    ADB

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