Bush and Pelosi: Both are failures

As soon as I saw Pelosi

Submitted by woody188 on July 18, 2008 - 7:19am.

As soon as I saw Pelosi labels Bush's Presidency as 'a total failure' on the CHB main page I was going to rant about her complacency on spying, war, and lobbies. Glad you had it covered already. :)

Doug makes a valid point and

Submitted by Sandra Price on July 18, 2008 - 8:33am.

Doug makes a valid point and that is we must change the system in how we elect our leaders. In the last 20 years it seems that our Republican Party has turned into members of the Evangelicals proven by watching the GOP debates. Why is it necessary for our candidates to believe in Jesus Christ? Is it because the RNC needs the control over the white house? It is because the Evangelicals now have the ability to tell their congregations how to vote? Must any candidate claim they do not believe in evolution to be electable? Will America eventually follow Rumania in banning abortions, divorce and birth control? This ended up in millions dying of AIDS including babies.

Now that Obama is cutting a deal with the Evangelicals, I have no candidate. Is America a Christian nation asking the government to tell us what we cannot do? All this Christian restrictions set on our candidates have managed to develop the most corrupt group of politicians since Henry VIII of England.

Of course Pelosi's father was a crook but he was a Christian crook. Of course Prescott Bush dealt with Hiter, but he was a Christian!

There is no evidence in the American government that any member of either party knows the Constitution or even right from wrong. Until the voters start looking at ethics and morals in our congress, our white house will continue their corruption.

It is time for our candidates to tell the voters that the Candidate's God is personal and their God is also personal. Neither should step on each other. That is freedom!

Wow Sandra! It is a good

Submitted by Bill Robinson on July 18, 2008 - 11:34pm.

Wow Sandra! It is a good thing that your name isn't Priceinsky--otherwise the anti-semites would be all over you for castigating Christians.

Its nice to see an honest woman voicing her opinion. In one of my posts a long time ago I said that Pelosi was not to be trusted, but I didn't think her christianity or lack of that had anything to do with the inability to trust Nancy the Not so Nubile Nabob. The mere fact that she was from Maryland and a product of the Baltimore Political Machine lent great suspicion to any act or statement she made. Known for corrupt politicians like Mandel and Agnew, Baltimore has spawned yet another thief and liar, and sadly she has, like Agnew, achieved high National Office.

Oh what fools we mortals be...

Bill, I only want the

Submitted by Sandra Price on July 19, 2008 - 6:35am.

Bill, I only want the Christians out of the Federal Government. They have consistently tried to change the wording of our Constitution and the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag and now the science programs in our schools to represent Intelligent Design and claiming that God planned the American nation.

For the first time in many years, Evangelicals voted in the elections. Even Republicans were told to leave them alone and strive for voters who knew and understood the Constitution. We saw the result of Bush 43 winning after he promised faith based grants. It changed the complexion of the elections to back Christians only. I saw this grow in the Libertarian Party and even the Democrats backed Christians only just to get the Evangelical votes. Obama is going after them as we speak.

Only through this force for Evangelicals could a man so inept be elected. We got what we paid for and he could not wait to get into war against Islam. Why else would any thinking American want from this boob named Bush?

deleted by author, comment

Submitted by ekaton on July 18, 2008 - 9:29am.

deleted by author, comment was off-topic

All this talk, but no

Submitted by Ladywolf55 on July 18, 2008 - 9:40am.

All this talk, but no action... sigh... we're still dealing with APATHY to the worst degree. Like the old commercial said, "Talk, talk, talk, when do we eat?"

Our government is corrupt to it's very core. You all know what we need, but we seem to be powerless. All we do is TALK.

Barring a common agreement

Submitted by Flapsaddle on July 18, 2008 - 11:44pm.

Barring a common agreement between and among the various sections of the electorate that the system is irredemably corrupt and must be dismantled, nothing will happen but talk. Now, each half of the beast talks about cleaning up the system by - big surprise! - putting them in charge so they can clean up the mess caused by - another big one! - the other side.

The system is not only corrupt but self-perpetuating. To get anywhere, you have to be a team player - meaning that you have to go along to get long. Anyone actually wanting reform, anyone actually honest in doing his duty to his oath of office, will be quickly shunted onto the backwater runs lest he endanger the smooth trip of the gravy train. Good case in point: Ron Paul. The man enrages the GOP power-brokers because he will not conform to the needs of the team; thus, he will never get the nod from the head-shed.

There is no solution to the problem as long as we continue to believe that participating in the problem will lead to a solving of the problem. There is no silver bullet, no "Open Sesame!" that will do anything. There is no group of thinkers who will scribble megabytes that will get us out of this. There is no candidate on a white horse who will save us. There is no internet group-think that will do anything other than, as you point out, generate more talk.

There comes a point in the life of everyone and everything where it is impossible to fix the problems; too much has broken down. The problem is, each party's set of Stepford voters still believes that the circle can be squared and the angle can be trisected if only we are allowed to do it and the other guys are sent packing. Like desperate children taking their aged, dying parent from specialist to specialist, each side of the beast still believes that their parent's problem can be solved and their decline reversed if they can just get the right program, the right writers, or the right number of action items permuted through the net for - you got it! - more talk.

Until we give up on the parties we have and - like the Arapahoe forcing the old and infirm out into a blizzard, or the Eskimo chopping a hole in the ice and shoving the aged and infirm - the necessary sense of self-preservation to get rid of these dangers to us and our liberty, nothing, absolutely nothing, is going to happen - except for more talk.

Most sincerely,

T. J. Flapsaddle

My dear Brothers and Sisters

Submitted by Arthur on July 19, 2008 - 6:26pm.

My dear Brothers and Sisters . . .

I very much appreciate the sense of frustration that causes many of us to feel that “all we do is TALK,” but please allow me to remind you that I have been offering to do the work necessary to salvage what remains of our country for over a year-and-a-half.

That work is detailed on www.DismantleIt.com —including immediately putting Dennis Kucinich, Cynthia McKinney, and Ron Paul (listed alphabetically) into the White House—and on the two forums I post to CHB’s Reader Rant (listed below).

Should you be willing to your part in bringing such work to fruition, all you need do is to give careful thought to the work I am offering to do and, if you are so inclined, to passionately! spread the word.

All I can do is make the offer. How can you learn just how much power “We the People” actually do have if you, yourself, do not take the necessary action?

As I have often written, “Time is of the essence.”

Blessings,

Arthur “Two Sheds” Jackson
www.DismantleIt.com
www.DismantleIt.net
Capitol Hill Blue Reader Rant Forums:
DismantleIt.com Deliberations
Cynthia, Dennis, and Ron: We Need All Three

I'm sorry, Mr. Jackson, but

Submitted by churlpat on July 20, 2008 - 9:42am.

I'm sorry, Mr. Jackson, but the website about dismantle it contains the most ridiculous stuff I've read in the last 20 years.

I'll take just one of the many things that are bandied about and discuss it for a minute:

dismantle the Federal bureaucracy.

Among other things, it is the bureaucracy which pays the troops. Place called Defense Finance and Accounting Service. What good does it do to have a military if you cannot pay them? They are all gonna work for nothing?

It is the bureaucracy that keeps planes from crashing into one another. Tha same bureaucracy makes sure that the airlines keep their planes safe. Go read about China Air if you want to study up on the horrors of lack of maintenance.

It is the bureaucracy that keeps bad drugs from coming on the market. One word here: thalidomide.

It is the bureaucracy which has made great strides in making the US auto fleet the safest in the world, with concomitant decreases in deaths per million miles driven that makes us the envy of the world for auto safety.

It is the bureaucracy which makes stock market investing safe by protecting us from predators who would sell worthless stocks to unsuspecting buyers.

I could go on and on, but this is just a tiny bit of the things the bureaucracy does that makes your life worth living.

It is the bureaucracy which enforces civil rights laws and protects minorities from such wonderful inventions as separate but equal. Do you remember what the schools in the South were like before Brown v. Board of Education? I do.

And don't even get me started on three vice presidents, particularly such fruitcakes as the three stooges the website named.

Churlpat -- a plutarch by any name is still a plutarch

Mr Thompson: You say Speaker

Submitted by churlpat on July 18, 2008 - 10:31am.

Mr Thompson:

You say Speaker Pelosi is guilty of corruption. All I've seen is a good deal of ineptitude. Could you enlighten me on what corrupt things she has done since she became Speaker?

Churlpat -- a plutarch by any name is still a plutarch

Allow me to take the

Submitted by woody188 on July 18, 2008 - 11:18am.

Allow me to take the liberty.

She said she was briefed on NSA domestic spying when she was ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee but she failed to say or do anything about it. Never mind the program was illegal and started prior to 9-11. If asked she would say it's the result of terrorism.

She immediately proclaimed impeachment off the table and claimed it a distraction from Democrats agenda. What agenda? What has this Congress done but repeatedly capitulate to the President's demands?

How about her 1999 trip to Taiwan paid for by the Chinese National Association of Industry and Commerce. Is it any wonder we have jobs fleeing overseas and H-1B's flooding in over here?

“I’ve heard her say numerous times that the single greatest achievement of the 20th century was the founding of the modern state of Israel. She has been a great friend of the U.S.-Israel relationship during her entire time in Congress and is deeply committed to strengthening that relationship,” according to Amy Friedkin, a former president of AIPAC and a friend of Pelosi’s for 25 years.

She is a big business, big government globalist/fascist/zionist just like the President and the neo-cons. She voted yes to the original PATRIOT Act, and yes to the FISA amendments. Need I say more?

There is a really cool voting record database at Project Vote Smart. We all should be reviewing our Congress critters records.

I'm stuck with Deborah Pryce, who insisted to me that we found chemical weapons trailers in Iraq, and now doesn't bother to take my correspondence when I pointed out she was wrong. Thank God she has announced her retirement. She has been in since 1992, and would have lost last election had it not been for re-districting.

In 2005, the Federal

Submitted by Doug Thompson on July 18, 2008 - 11:45am.

In 2005, the Federal Election Commission found that Pelosi's political action committee attempted to circumvent election laws -- the same violations that led to former GOP whip Tom DeLay's resignation.

In 1995 she voted against banning gifts from lobbyists. A followup review of giving by lobbyists showed Pelosi was ranked in the top five in gifts from lobbyists, including savings & loan lobbyists before that industry's meltdown.

As chairman of the House Administration Committee, she blocked pubic disclosure of reports of drug dealing in the House Post Office and bounced checks by Members of Congress. She regularly overdrew her account at the House Bank (run at the time by the Sgt. at Arms).

She pushed John Murtha for the Democratic second in command's job even though Murtha has a questionable ethics history, including involvement inABSCAM.

She is involved in a questionable land trust involving the Presidio, the former Army base in San Francisco that was sold to private investors.

Do I need to go on? There's lots more.

I'm having a bit of trouble

Submitted by churlpat on July 18, 2008 - 3:51pm.

I'm having a bit of trouble here. Corruption is:

(1) inducement (as of a public official) by improper means (as bribery) to violate duty (as by commiting a felony)

or (2) lack of integrity or honesty (especially susceptibility to bribery); use of a position of trust for dishonest gain

When you accuse Mrs. Pelosi of corruption, aren't you saying that she took bribes to change her vote? Or that she used her office of trust for personal financial gain?

In the PAC thing, Mrs. Pelosi ran two PACs that gave an aggregate of too much money to three candidates. The PACs paid a fine. How is this corruption, according to the definitions above, which came from a dictionary?

Reference the taking money from lobbyists, though I abhor the very idea of lobbying, is there evidence that she used her office for financial gain or that she was induced to vote in a particular way on a particular bill or to otherwise influence legislation? Is her taking money any different from all the other politicians who accept donations from lobbying groups?

I spent 45 minutes looking for a link that said Mrs. Pelosi's actions as committee chairman were responsible for cutting off access to records in the House Post Office matter some dozen or more years ago. All I found was a House vote on the matter, which is certainly above Mrs. Pelosi's committee chair role. Can you show me somethng that says Mrs. Pelosi's committee chair actions did what you said? Or that she benefited financially in some way?

Yes, Mrs. Pelosi inexplicably tried to shove Mr Murtha into the leadership position, but the House Democrats voted her down. How does that make Mrs. Pelosi corrupt?

As to the thing at the Presidio, all I can find is that she was instrumental in setting up the Presidio as a sort of private national park. Can you enlighten a poor old widow on why that is questionable? I can't find anything that alleges she made any money over it or that she allowed someone else to influence her officially.

Please, I'm only asking questions. I am not trying to argue with you, I am trying to understand.

Churlpat -- a plutarch by any name is still a plutarch

You mention: or (2) lack of

Submitted by Doug Thompson on July 19, 2008 - 8:06am.

You mention:

or (2) lack of integrity or honesty (especially susceptibility to bribery); use of a position of trust for dishonest gain.

The San Francisco Examiner series on the Presidio Land Trust deal clearly showed a financial gain for Pelosi. Those backing the deal also maxed out on campaign contributions to her after she pushed the deal through.
On the day she began her tenure as Speaker of the House, Pelosi hosted a big bucks fundraiser for lobbyists in Washington. Her message to lobbyists: "Back us or your issues go nowhere." We reported on that fundraiser as did other news outlets.
Several campaign watchdog watchdog groups have followed her voting record closely and found multiple instances where she changed her positions immediately after or just before political action committees for special interest groups maxed out in political contributions to her.
Before the House tightened the restriction on travel by Members of Congress, Pelosi was one of the largest abusers of the use of private aircraft owned by political contributors. She opposed tightening the regualtions.

The Speaker is for sale. Always has been, always will be.

I find Pelosi and Steny

Submitted by jwritesel on July 18, 2008 - 11:32am.

I find Pelosi and Steny Hoyer to be totally incompetent and I think the Democrats should seriously think about electing a new Speaker and Majority Leader at the first available moment that have some backbone. If there ever was a President in need of impeachment this one has first in line priviledges. The problem is that leaves Cheney in the driver seat. This president is a clown and if not the worst president then definitely in anyone's top five but Cheney downright scares me when it comes to where he would take this country. I could not help but notice the put down for Obama. I agree he is not perfect but when matched up to the king of flip floppers McCain, Obama smells far better than the stench coming from the guy over on the Republican side who has over 60 flip flops over his career and positions on everything from gimmicks for energy, the Gramm economic policy for whiners, and a host of other positions I could never support. That is when you can tell what his position is any particular day or get him to remember what he voted on.

Nancy Pelosi and her

Submitted by Charlie Couser on July 18, 2008 - 12:38pm.

Nancy Pelosi and her counterpart in the Senate, Harry Reid, are just two of the political hacks that compose our elected federal officals. Like far too many others, they have become entrenched in office and addicted to the lust and power of money. They think nothing of passing legislation which favors one group over another as long as their campaign coffers are sufficiently stuffed; or if there is something personal to be gained.

Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, et al, are all failures. However, they are but symptoms of a larger failure: that being the failure of the American voters who allow this disaster to continue...

Charlie Couser

Charlie Couser, you

Submitted by Sandra Price on July 19, 2008 - 6:21am.

Charlie Couser, you certainly nailed it. I remember the day Perot stood up against Bush 41 and exposed the Empire coming out of the GOP. Perot warned about NAFTA and growing deficit of our having to deal openly with corruption from other nations. Many of the old Goldwater supporters and Reaganites jumped in behind Perot but the RNC and DNC came rushing in and knocked him down and the threats to his own family required that he withdraw. This is the new American policies coming from the Republicans and Democrats.

The American voter knows only two parties and this coming November will find them puzzled which party represents the biggest handouts. Neither party is standing on their original agendas and both want more government control since voters cannot stand on their own. This is a result of the military industrial complex running on government contracts made to increase the wealth of the Republicans. The entire Iraq war is continuing to increase the wealth of the Republicans and removing the whole concept of a more efficient and limited government.

Americans are painted into a corner knowing their families will suffer without these contracts for war. We have lost our American values of free enterprise capitalism which destroyed us under federal government control. We can never bring capitalism back until the government is downsized to a point where supply and demand can return and our contracts can bring our corporations back to compete for the jobs.

After the November election, we will see a move to redistribute the wealth in America. This will be done through controls issued by the government and America will lean very much into Socialism. There will be no stopping this and we had better get used to it.

Bush/Clinton/Bush quitely destroyed Capitalism with their plans of destruction of the Constitution. They won! Get used to it!

Perot and Paul brought plans for individual growth within America and would have removed us from this One World Order Empire. Most Evangelicals were sold on this Empire, promising it would be based on Jesus Christ's values.

I'm tired of fighting for individual freedoms as there is nothing more I can say on the subject. Maybe Socialism will be just what America needs. We have no need for American products when India and China can make things cheaper. Mexico can grow produce cheaper and drugs are the single most money maker on our streets. These are the American values we will have to get used to. Even when the imported products make us sick, big daddy will be there with free health care...not to worry.

"We can never bring

Submitted by ekaton on July 19, 2008 - 4:23pm.

"We can never bring capitalism back until the government is downsized to a point where supply and demand can return and our contracts can bring our corporations back to compete for the jobs."

Do you believe that taxpayers should be required to bail out corporations about to fail? Shouldn't the stockholders be required to take the losses?

How about private hedge funds? Should those about to fail be deemed "too large to fail" and therefore be bailed out by taxpayers after recording billions in profits for their owners in previous years?

-- Kent Shaw

Valid points every one

Submitted by bryan mcclellan on July 19, 2008 - 6:16pm.

Valid points every one Kent.

I doubt any will line up for red ink though, you see thieves are afraid of commitment lest the deck is stacked.

Herr Dich , and his oil summit come to mind, Eh?

One correction. The

Submitted by incog99 on July 20, 2008 - 4:58pm.

One correction.

The government can bail out a corporation and the stockholders can end up with zip too. Stockholders are last in line after the creditors, bond holders and preferred share holders.

The point is that I don't

Submitted by ekaton on July 20, 2008 - 5:44pm.

The point is that I don't want my tax dollars bailing out ANY private enterprise. This should be the problem of the shareholders, the creditors, the bond holders and the preferred shareholders. And I don't want my tax dollars spent for useless and unnecessary wars. Just think if all the money spent by taxpayers for unnecessary wars including WWI and WWII had instead been spent for infrastructure at home. Highways, railroads, bridges, ports, alternative energy. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of ALL of it. The few get wealthy from war and the rest of us pay and pay and pay.

-- Kent Shaw

I have been reading a

Submitted by incog99 on July 21, 2008 - 1:42am.

I have been reading a brilliant analyst, John Mauldin, for several years and he states in reference to changing the shorting rules on Fannie Mae,

"Paulson had no realistic choice but to do what he did. But the true point is, he should have never had to make that choice. A real regulator would not have let them leverage their capital to the extent they did. If taxpayers have to invest one penny before shareholders are wiped out, then there is no justice. Fannie and Freddie should be broken up into several much smaller firms which are not too big too fail, their shares floated to new owners, and taxpayers should get preferred shares until they are made whole. And the implicit, but now explicit, guarantee should be taken away."

The brilliance of his remark is that we taxpayers who are required to bail out these companies should be entitled to "preferred shares" in these companies.

Now there is a Democratic solution that I would vote for.

incog99

Sandra; It kind of reminds

Submitted by Charlie Couser on July 19, 2008 - 7:21am.

Sandra;

It kind of reminds you of the end the Roman Empire, doesn't it?

Hale Caesar!

Thanks for your feedback.

Charlie Couser

Charlie, I have equated

Submitted by Sandra Price on July 19, 2008 - 9:26am.

Charlie, I have equated America following in the footsteps of the Roman Empire many times. Caesar was taken down by his own Senate and the empire continued to grow until the people finally revolted. Then along came Constantine and the real probems started. The Christians ended up in Rome and that was the end of their freedoms, and the start of more wars.

It is a pattern that America must stop before our Constitution is rewritten as Huckabee suggested. Our freedoms come from our Constitution not granted by any God! America may have faltered too far to ever be able to think in terms of freedom and liberty and we will need a tribal God to punish us so we can get into heaven.

I have never been bothered by churches until they began to mark ballots for their congregations knowing damn well they never understood individual freedoms.

The only answer is the separation of church and state!

Sandra, I couldn't agree

Submitted by Charlie Couser on July 20, 2008 - 10:01am.

Sandra,

I couldn't agree more.

Charlie Couser

I do not want the government

Submitted by Sandra Price on July 20, 2008 - 12:36pm.

I do not want the government to bail out anything with tax payers money. It is a dangerous action to start and the fastest way to push us into Socialism. However in 2009, we have no choice. Obama will be elected and his health care that the people want will throw us in the same systen found in other Socialized nations. Not a single free enterprise system showed during these last years and without competition, it will be big daddy's choice. I trust Obama more than McCain in this situation and another situation is our failing schools.

I've always felt that the federal government should hold the Governor's feet to the fire to bring up the reading scores and even mention the Constitution once before graduation. There is no reason our next generation can't learn about economics and supply and demand. And learn the difference between capitalism and socialism. With the kids running the streets must stop and these kids should be sent to trade schools before they end up in prison.

I believe CHB has a number of good people who can put together some firm changes in our government before 2012. This gives us a chance to check out Obama and the Democrats and get a guarantee that the next Supreme Court justice be appointed to represent all Americans equally. If McCain gets this position, every American family will suffer under his Justice appointments.

We can talk and plan for the future. We know the changes that must be made. Just on this thread we can do this as a team without fighting and calling each other insulting names.

Doug wants positive input and he has generously given us this place to work.

We can't change anything in

Submitted by Timr on July 20, 2008 - 3:45pm.

We can't change anything in DC until we the people stop electing clowns. Our political leaders rarely include the best, or even top drawer;they have little civic experience and leadership. This is not a new phenomenon.

Although the Evangelicals

Submitted by incog99 on July 20, 2008 - 4:44pm.

Although the Evangelicals voted as a block in 2000 and 2004 I think it is a mistake to blame them. They were used like the rest of us and their disarray is proof of that. Now that they are mad at the Republicans the problem persists.

It's about money people and how much each in office can steal. It's nice to suggest getting Paul or Mckinney in the White House but how the heck can we do that? The Press won't even acknowledge their existence.

Until we get a free press we have no chance at all getting a progressive elected at all. In San Diego during the last congressional elections we had a candidate running against Daryll Issa (a real piece of work) and the press reported that he was running "unnopposed". There was a Democrat running against him but they made an "innocent error".

We need a free press first, second we need an informed populace. I addressed the free press, there is none except for sites like these. As for informed populace, well listen to radio in middle America. All you can get is Rush Limbaugh and FOX news. So much for an informed public.

I am afraid it is hopeless unless someone can suggest a way we get our press back.

incog99

Sandra, As a traditional

Submitted by sherry on July 20, 2008 - 5:02pm.

Sandra,
As a traditional Christian, I can tell you the Christian movement is NOT about religion. It is about money and power.
Prior to the late Jerry Falwell's becoming a political jackass, he actually was a good minister. Then it became all about Jerry. Jerry got in bed with the republicans because the democrats wanted no part of him and his ilk.
My beliefs prohibit gay marriage. I have a dear, dear friend who is gay. He knows my beliefs. He also knows I am the first to say that while homosexuality is not my sin, I have plenty of others. Do I think our government should adhere to my personal beliefs? No.
Jesus commanded us to be a separate people. We are to pray for our nation and our leaders (that has been very hard to do lately)He also warned us to be wary of those pious souls who preach and pray so proudly to be heard.
I have no interest in re writing the constitution. It served us well until we allowed politicians on both sides of the aisle to gut it.
Don't blame Christians Sandra. Our problems are so much greater than that.

"My beliefs prohibit gay

Submitted by ekaton on July 20, 2008 - 5:49pm.

"My beliefs prohibit gay marriage."

So don't marry a gay person. And I doubt your "friend" considers his homosexuality a "sin". Continue to live in fear if it suits you. The rest of us would rather move forward and find real answers to real problems.

-- Kent Shaw

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