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May 16, 2008 - 11:56am.

Dutch cartoonist arrested for 'insulting people'

Currently people can lose their jobs for speaking publicly their controversial views. I can think of well known media types that have made faux paus and suffered the consequences as well as Average Joe types that have suffered similar consequences.

So I ask you are we next? Is the next step to arrest people and have the government decide if our speech crossed over the line?

If I recall, isn't that one of the issues that sparked the first Revolution in this country?

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Been there, done that. Does

Been there, done that.

Does the name Lenny Bruce ring any bells. Free speech in America? Pleeease... Ever heard of the Federal Censorship Commission a.k.a. FCC? Are you unfamiliar with their... ongoing crusade.

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I was NOT aware that the FCC

I was NOT aware that the FCC put anyone in jail!

Yes I am old enough to remember Lenny Bruce but I don't remember him going jail either. But then I could be having a Senior moment like John McCain.

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Bruce was sentenced on

Bruce was sentenced on December 21, 1964, to four months in the workhouse; he was set free on bail during the appeals process and died before the appeal was decided.

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That is what is great about

That is what is great about the internet. Instant information. I remember his death. I just didn't remember the jail stuff. So what specifically was he found guilty of? Using Obscenity? How about a history lesson for those too young to know who you are talking about.

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From his Wikipedia

From his Wikipedia profile

Legal troubles

On October 4, 1961 Bruce was arrested for obscenity[3] at the Jazz Workshop in San Francisco; he had used the word cocksucker and riffed that "'to' is a preposition, 'come' is a verb" and that the sexual context of "come" is so common that it bears no weight, and that if someone hearing it becomes upset, they "probably can't come." Although the jury acquitted him, other law enforcement agencies began monitoring his appearances, resulting in frequent arrests under charges of obscenity. The increased scrutiny also led to an arrest in Philadelphia for drug possession in the same year, and again in Los Angeles, California, two years later.

By the end of 1963, he had become a target of the Manhattan district attorney, Frank Hogan, who was working closely with Francis Cardinal Spellman, the Archbishop of New York. The association of Hogan and Spellman led to the often repeated speculation that Bruce's persecution was actually fueled by his status as the original comedic Catholic Church-basher. In April 1964, he appeared twice at the Cafe Au Go Go in Greenwich Village, with undercover police detectives in the audience. On both occasions, he was arrested after leaving the stage, the complaints again resting on his use of various obscenities.

A three-judge panel presided over his widely-publicized six-month trial, with Bruce and club owner Howard Solomon being found guilty of obscenity on November 4, 1964. The conviction was announced despite positive testimony and petitions of support from Woody Allen, Bob Dylan, Jules Feiffer, Allen Ginsberg, Norman Mailer, William Styron, and James Baldwin, among other artists, writers and educators, as well as Manhattan journalist and television personality Dorothy Kilgallen and sociologist Herbert Gans. Bruce was sentenced on December 21, 1964, to four months in the workhouse; he was set free on bail during the appeals process and died before the appeal was decided. Solomon's conviction was eventually overturned by New York's highest court, the New York Court of Appeals, in 1970 (People v. Solomon, 26 N.Y.2d. 621).

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as I said, I remembered him

as I said, I remembered him dying, I just didn't remember him going to jail. If I recall, when he died my parents said something about he used bad words. I was young and my parents never used any questionable language in front of us.

I would like to point out that for there to be social change, there always has to be one person willing to sacrifice their personal liberty for the liberties of others. Rosa Parks is a great example.

However, you are correct. If it not for Lenny Bruce, comedians today would not be able to say the things that they say.

Now obscenity can be defined as a gray area. And since the community standard is suppose to define what is obscene, I can't imagine anyone going to jail for using the F word unless they used it at a cop.

In this case, a cartoonist goes to jail over his cartoon. Are you saying that his cartoon is obscene by their community's standards? I always looked at the Dutch as one of the most liberal cultures in Europe. To define this artist cartoon as obscene seems to be a very conservative stand point. Of course Islam is known for being a very conservative religion.

I guess I just wasn't aware they had taken over Europe.

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North African and Middle

North African and Middle Eastern immigrants (with their strong Islamic roots) are to Europe what Hispanics are to N. America -- cheap black-market labor. The [inhumane] inclination to exploit those of limited socio-economic status is universal.

BTW, we have hate speech laws here in America too.

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hate speech laws in America.

hate speech laws in America. OK, enlighten us!

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Several European countries

Several European countries have such "hate speech" laws. Germany for one, obviously the Netherlands, and France as well. Bridget Bardot, the sex-pot actress from the 50s and 60s, is currently under indictment in her native France for "insulting" Muslims.

One genuine exception seems to be Denmark, where the government has come down firmly on the side of press freedom in its defense of the publication of the controversial cartoons of Mohammed that caused such an uproar a couple of years ago.

Unfortunately, our own country seems to be drifting in the direction of criminalization of thought if those thoughts offend someone.

Most sincerely,

T. J. Flapsaddle

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A law by any other

A law by any other name...

Case in point - the tyrannical police-state dream legislation Patiot Act. It's anything but patriotic according to the terms and spirit exhibited throughout America's founding documents; the Declaration of Independence, U.S. Constitution and the [Peoples] Bill of Rights.

I was mistaken in stating that we have hate speech laws in America. But we do have a close-knit cousin which may be even worse - hate crime legislation. I say damn the difference.

How can the state possibly prosecute one for 'errant' thinking, minus some evidence of the prohibited thought process having been communicated outwardly.

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Can I be first? The Bush

Can I be first?

The Bush administration...

TRY 'EM & FRY 'EM

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