great perspective, Andrew. You are correct that Basra could indeed be the next Fallujah. But remember, American forces did not win in Fallujah.

BTW, it has occured to me that Iran could be assisting in some of the increase violence in order to increase the price of oil.

The higher the price of oil goes up, the more powerful Iran becomes in the overall picture of the Middle East.

"How many more American lives is this experiement in stupidity in foreign policy worth?"

As many as GW, Dick & John McCain decide is enough! Ain't going to happen anytime soon, either! GW is not going to withdraw any troops, period, end of story!

The only way we are going to get out of Iraq anytime soon is if we can get 66 Senators and 2/3 of the House of Rep to make GW irrellevant and vote AYE on a bill to bring home the troops.

One would think with all the retiring republicans, we could get it done. But the strong arm tactics of the GOP (Genuises of Propaganda) are powerful.

Powerful stuff, Ed, but it is not going to change anything happening right now! The powers in control aren't going to change! The only hope we have of getting out of Iraq anytime in the near future is if we elect ANYONE other than John McCain!

With the first Winter Soldier in the early 70's, there was minimal MSM coverage. But what little coverage there was was soon buried under mounds of scorn and pseudopatriotism by those who either couldn't believe that OUR soldiers could perpetrate such evil or by those who did not want to make John Q Public more aware than what he already was, which was negligible at most.

I closely watched the news sources leading up to WS this year and to my dismay found little of consequence. And I saw none at all during the event.

The attacks against those who testified during the first WS were all about veracity. And even today, their original testimonies are attacked as either fabricated or exaggerated.

I fully expect that what coverage there might be today by the MSM on WS2008 will be likewise attacks on their validity. But, after a week since the event there has been no coverage. The MSM has ignored it because they do not want John Q Public to know what we (as a nation) are allowing to be done. They know that JQ Public can't handle the truth.

War is war. Nothing goods comes from it. Sometimes you must be completely cold about what is done. But there is a line you do not cross in war. This line defines the Rules of Engagement. This line defines our humanity. And just because some military court rules that "actions were justifiable" doesn't release those involved from what happened.

Has anyone really looked into all those suicides by veterans of this occupation? There has to be a reason why so many have decided to check out. Maybe what is being done in Iraq is more than these kids can handle. Or maybe the care and counselling they receive when they return is inadequate.

The reason Bush is not going to draw down troop levels before he leaves office is because this is all about his legacy. If things remain static until he leaves then he/they can say that the next President blew it. George just wants al Maliki to hang on till then.

But I don't think he'll make it. The summer is long and hot in Iraq and this has been percolating for too long. This civil war cannot be contained any longer. And this is Bush's (and the republic party as well) worst nightmare. A crumbling economy at home and a wide open, full-scale civil war in Iraq.

This is just this old curmudgeon's opinion, of course.

You can't educate people who don't want to be educated! The American people have already decided they want our troops home.

I understand your point as well about the Dems. But we have a much higher percentage of probability of getting our troops home with a Dem, than with John McCain who has already publicly stated that he has no intention of bringing home our troops and that they can stay there 100 years if necessary.

Personally, I don't think Senator Clinton will bring home the troops either. She'll be too scared to be seen as "weak on security."

But they may not have a choice. Either they stop hemorraging money into Iraq or we face MORE serious financial difficulties in our immediate future.

Dr. D you make exactly that same statement every time you type, no matter the topic. In Hillary's case I agree with you. She is business as usual with the same old gang. But what is it that makes you believe Obama is tied up with the same people?

I don't see it. His whole campaign is built around the pledge that he is not beholden to any corporate lords. If, in fact untrue, that would make him another George W. Bush - "I'm a uniter, not a divider." This concept is insane. There is no way he could pull it off.

And what about the FACT that he refuses any corporate money and has returned their checks when received? 90% of his donations have been under $200. The only maximum personal donations of about $2300 he has accepted from CEO'S of law firms and companies have been from their personal accounts, not the company's.

I know you have mentioned in the past that Obama has attended some meetings of nefarious groups but if that is your validation we are right back to McCarthyism 60 years later.

If you have some sort of proof of your contention that Obama is enscounced with the Corporate and/or MIC rat pack, please lay it on me. This is the main reason we are all here - to share pertinent information. Claiming something is so without proof is the worst kind of bullshit and will be ignored along with the poster.

"After Fancy Pants Pelosi showed her true spinelessness after the Democrappers first won a majority in the house, that was it, I don't trust the Democrappers period. "

I wish it was that simple. The Dems don't have enough votes to override GW and the strong arms of the Genuises of Propaganda(GOP) have made it clear that they do not care what the people of the United States want.

What point is it to waste time on impeachment proceedings when you KNOW that it will result in no actions taken.

Didn't we put the country through that in the last decade? They wasted tons of valuable time making us listen to their hypocrisy! And I feel reasobaly certain that the majority of Americans don't want to go through that again even if they think Bush/Cheney are the biggest pieces of dung on the planet.

The best hope we have is an Obama president with a Dem Congress (not damn, mind you (hahahahaha)) regardless of any doubts because we KNOW what will happen under John McCain, the war monger!

Dr. Paul is the only Republican candidate that has had the courage to stand in front of the American people and tell the truth.

It totally amazes me that the GOP has let him stay in the party. But I would like to point out that he has a record of voting WITH the Bushies on many, MANY issues in the past 8 years.

Don't get me wrong. Dr Paul is an old family friend.....but he is still a Republican.

Well, Sandra, glad to see you are still talking to me(gg). I understand the fiscal conservative point of view. You don't have to be a Republican to have that point of view either.

As I indicated, Dr Paul is a long time family friend who I have nothing but respect for. But it should be noted that he has voted with the Bushies on many occasions in the past 7 years.

That said...you and I are on the same page with GW. We were just in different locations warning different people who didn't listen.

My take on it is a bit different from yours being raised in a heavily republican part of Houston TX and am the same generation as our idiot leader GW.(need I say more?)

GW doesn't do anything unless there is something personally in it for him....like vengeance against someone. His intentions throughout this entire period have been documented in a slew of books. Too bad we couldn't put everything we know in one book for all the world to see.

Hey Sandra, I heard a very good NPR radio interview with Bob Barr and his work he is doing with some other folks who I forget any names at the moment. Barr has been involved with this group that is trying to expose the dangers of the AIPAC lobby and how that lobby is in close cahoots with the American Neo-Cons, has continually been selling its interests against our country, getting us involved in the fool occupation.

Anyway, I had a new and deep respect for Barr, he really is a strait shooter and not a neo-con stooge and is pro-impeachment against Bush. I recorded the radio show and it was on NPR and If I can find the link to it I'll send the link to the entire show when I see you on the boards. It is archived and can be listened to right from the page. Anyway, you mentioning Bob Barr really reminded me of hearing that show with him on it.

The more and more I've been on CHB, the more I love coming hear to read the postings of all the CHB'ers and 'go to school'. CHB'ers are very civilized, and it is so nice to be here. I go to my local area webpage for the San Francisco Chronicle and the bloggers there are very un-civilized, its like being in a pie fight there.

Capitol Hill Blue -YOU ARE THE ONE!

Have you ever noticed that whenever the GOP is in trouble, either the fighting starts again and the T word gets tossed around again and again and again.

It's like a broken record!

Sandra -- together we'd be dangerous to A LOT of people (BIG GRIN)!

I am convinced that the difference between the public's participation in Vietnam and Iraq is the draft.

It was the young people who stood up and said NO to the Feds. That started the public outcry. But if you recall, there was no public outcry until the students started saying NO!

We don't have that with Iraq! They are all volunteers!....or so they thought. There's a new movie coming out today called "Stop Loss", that hopefully will open up some eyes and make people angry!