damn, Phil. You ask for nothing that each and every one of us are entitled to.

The founding fathers of this country tried to jump several steps when they created this republic. They stole, borrowed, and bent the best ideas of the day, then used the synergy of creative thought and the best of ancient philosophy to birth a new nation.

some suggest that we are going senile, that america's time has passed. I suggest that it is but a troublesome, fearful, adolescence, punctuated with crimes, hate and immaturity. That said, once Bush is gone, it is bound to improve.

It has been a troubled childhood, and we have much to do to grow up. But there are promising signs, Phil, many of them.

Once we come closer to the American dream, and act within its ethical boundaries, other nations are bound to follow.

I don't know a single family that does not have gay or lesbian member and yet they still maintain the old Christian bible themes that castigate those among us who are different. It is a discrimination that seems to be overlooked by far too many.

It comes from the American family and it is spread by the most hateful internet sites. We are a long way from equality in America but millions of us are trying to teach love instead of hatred of others. This hatred comes from the Christian churches and leaders and we should have never allowed Robertson, Falwell, Hagee and Dobson anywhere near our government. I hope Rob is right when he says we will have a new attitude when Bush is gone. We also need to rid out Congress of the homophobes and replace this bigotry once and for all.

No, and I didn't kill JFK either!

I don't do collective/group guilt, though I've had any number of self-appointed public consciences presume to force it on me. I have enough things in my life that I'm actually responsible for so that I feel no need to accept those thrown at me by others; conversely, I do not run around looking for others to share the blame for the bad things in the world I find repulsive.

Most sincerely,

T. J. Flapsaddle

I'm with you TJ. Just because I do not campaign against an injustice does not mean I support it. And I certainly share no gulit in the horrible acts committed by those who are prejuduced or of misguided beliefs.

If I have aforeknowledge of the intent of an abortion clinic bomber or a Larry King's plan to murder a gay boy, I would surely act to prevent it. But to ask me to take on the responsibility for people's actions that I do not know and live hundreds of miles from me for any one of these issues is to ask me to take on the responsibility for all the variery of injustices everywhere and that would be overwhelming.

I often marvel at the creative way people read what I write. I did not ask anyone to take the blame for Larry King's murder. What I asked was whether you, in those moments that might occur in your everyday life, take a stand for each person to be the way they are without ridicule. When a "sissy boy" is being taunted, would or do you speak out and object?

That is what you can do, no crusading required.

Phil Hoskins

Hey Phil: As an old welding Instructor, my advise would be, lighten to a ten shade and Strike an arc,you got to short circuit sometimes to see the light.Everyman is a man , till proven different.I had a gentleman flip his helmet down,his hair came off, with the helmet, and nary a snicker . His peers did not care, they left his dignity intact. It's all in the way we conduct ourselves, I pray my daughters and my son hear me ! We are, smarter than this !

I absolutely believe that it is the responsibility of every American to stop what they find offensive in America. We are the people that this nation was formed to rule as a democracy. To allow gangs to write the rules of our society is exactly why our society is being destroyed. Flapsaddle hangs out with homophobes and anti-Semities and never utters a single word against this terrible growth in America. When one is silent, one is guilty!

The U.S. Constitution gives all Americans equality but not all Americans will act accordingly. These discriminations come from the American home, and every damn American who has character should stand up to it.

I don't suppose that you can actually cite any specific internet forum instance wherein I am alleged to have hung out with homophobes and antisemites, can you?

A single link to even one such site would establish the truth of the matter, would it not?

Most sincerely,

T. J. Flapsaddle

delete

TJ: I wondered how you were going to respond to that. Good choice.

Under another name, Flapsaddle has contributed a lot of time and space to several disreputable sites. I will not site them here as it would send many of you into a rage.

I despise hypocrites and would rather not be involved in CHB if this two-faced person continues to follow my posts with insults. It is an old argument and we are not on the same side in any way.

I want some improvement in the government and I am willing to work with a positive team and leave the playground outside. I want CHB to be the successful forum/site possible and not drag such negativity around as Flapsaddle has done to other forums. I am the target and again, I will stop my association with CHB.

Between now and November I have a very busy schedule and will not play in the playground.

If you leave every playground where you don't like all the people, or disagree with some on particular issues, you will never help change the world.

I appears that you left the Republican party for such a reason.

Everyone who believes homosexuality is wrong is not an evil person.

People who believe abortion is wrong may have a valid point to make.

Open-mindedness must work both ways, or it is itself hypocritical.

If I refused to associate with people who have different political views, in this state I'd be home a lot.

Sandra, don't go away mad, open your own mind.
- Jeffers

Peace without freedom is still slavery.

Jeffers I will not play when my posts here bring on replies from people I've known for years to be unable to discuss politics and will continue to discuss the messenger. I'm out of here as this poster is simply out to discredit me. There are no opinions from Flapsaddle. Without my being here, Flapsaddle will leave.

I have made many enemies on Conservative sites and I have tried to expose their bigotry and have paid a price. I have serious work to do politically and I will leave Flapsaddle to CHB. It only takes one or two spammers to destroy the subjects we are discussing. I simply do not have the time to repeatedly have to put up with some idiot who has no opinions of their own. Flapsaddle will get bored with CHB and leave. I will check into the blogs to read what honest and caring people have to write.

If Flapsaddle had any opinions to offer, I would stay but this is not the case. This is the third name for this poster and that is game playing.

I will no longer be involved in the internet forums.

www.rightpov.com

Sorry folks. I have to weigh on the side of Phil. What he's basically saying, and I agree, is that if you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. It's really as simple as that.

Since no problem EVER goes away by ignoring it, proactivity is absolutely necessary. I don't think he's suggesting you hang out at the airport with flowers and "be kind to gays 'cause it's the right thing to do".

But let's get to the root cause of the hatred rather than get all defensive about Phil's point. (I could go on for page after page about our general failure to get to root causes of any profound social issue rather than devising thousands of band-aid approaches to everything but I'll save that rant for another time).

That intolerance that young man had leading to his killing another teen is a disgraceful, huge, black pussie mark on our society (yes ALL OF US ARE responsible in a way because we utterly fail and refuse to acknowledge how and under what circumstances this hatred came about to begin with - how it's perpetuated - how our children learn it and from whom they learn it. Shall we?

In my humble opinion I think we can all agree with the basic premise that babies aren't born hating gays (or anyone or anything for that matter), correct? So where did they learn that? Who taught them that? Why did they unquestioningly accept that? If my rhetorical questions don't lead you directly to the answer, then I've failed in my mission.

Let's face it. The spoken word is a very powerful thing. Being proactive on the issue need only be a casual conversation about negative attitudes towards as simply hurtful. It may be a general discussion about parents' roles in drawing their own perverted pictures of life on a newly born child's clean slate of a mind. That child accepts what their parents say as gospel. They have no reason not to and certainly not the intellect yet. So they grow up with those attitudes not really understanding their nature and never questioning their veracity in much the same way they learn by rote to look both ways before crossing the street.

Let's face it folks. A lot of bullshit gets passed thoughtlessly from one generation to another and that bullshit perpetuates myth and lies and hatred and, as in this case, death. It didn't just pop up yesterday. So unless and until we're willing to take a good hard HONEST *gasp* look at ourselves and our own attitudes, we are truly screwed (that's a technical term).

I just wanted to add that every time society ignores a problem wishing it would go away, or worse, not even thinking about it, it will come back and bite us in the ass. That's what's happening to our society today ON EVERY FRONT. It's all falling apart and we pound our fists and wonder why. We ignore our impoverished youth on the one hand and then act angry, shocked and saddened by the rise in gun violence and gang violence and shootings at our schools something completely unheard of when I was a kid growing up. That's only one example and, again, I won't spam you with more but you get the idea. I hope.

Defining the problem is not necessarily a solution. Flapsaddle is good at defining just about everything but never has a solution to anything. Flapsaddle is a marshmellow floating on a cup of cocoa. Someday she might even get into the core of a discussion. Be careful, she plays a mean game.