"what we need is [...] economic restraint by the American people"

This is really all you needed to say. The economic problems that we are now facing have been caused by a number of things. I don't deny that the war in Iraq has cost us much more money than we have gained in security (or anything else, really), but let's aknowledge the extent to which the stupidity of the American people has played a role in things.

Additionally, the government is not only overextended overseas, but also here at home. The government has a hand in health care, environmental protection, and now the subprime mortgage industry as well. Perhaps if the government would gtfo of those areas and let the markets run their course, we wouldn't see nearly as much debt as we presently do, and furthermore, we'd also see more economic productivity.

I tire of people blaming the problems on the war and all to often I hear people say that the government isn't doing enough to solve our economic struggles. The government is doing too much in attempts to solve the economic difficulties because people don't understand that as economic difficulties, they will right themselves. Any money spent attempting to force a correction in a market is wasted money. If the government would chill off all the economic interference it's doing, we'd all be much better off.

Lessening our military involvement in Iraq sooner rather than later would help as well, though.

Phil -- you are totally correct. I was just thinking of how the very tactics we taught Al Qaida to use against the Soviets are now being used against us.

Economic principles dictate that our government cannot continue to pour billions of dollars into Bush's invasion of Iraq along with billion of tax giveaways to the rich and expect not to suffer the consequences.

Our economic woes are not totally the responsibility of an out of control public. It is more accurately an out of control public policy in regards to public spending.

The question I have about this so-called stimulus is a)how are we going to pay for it? and b)is this like the first free money giveaway which was just an advance out of alreaday paid income taxes?

I have not seen answers to either of these questions. So why are we not holding Hillary, Obama and John McCain accountable for answering these questions since they are om the Senate and should be expected to vote on this stimulus packages. I would like to know how they are going to vote and why.

It will be an important vote because if it does come down to any of these candidates, they will be held accountable later on down the line.

I sometimes think I'm having a 60's acid flashback.

It's just hard to believe this mess is all real...but apparently it is. Unfortunately, I don't get stoned or alter my mind with chemicals of any kind now...so it's a bit overwhelming at times.

Truly, superb comparative analysis Phil Hoskins...!

There's a big difference though. When the Soviets finally went belly-up they had the U.S. to help stabilize their shaky, faltering, almost non-existent economy.

During the Clinton era we were shipping cargo plane loads of U.S. currency to the tune of a 100 million per week to the Soviet Union to keep them afloat! This was not a loan either! We were even helping to pay the wages of their military in order to prevent mutiny...!?

The Russians finally popped to the surface as a pirate capitalist, quasi-dicatatorship under Yeltzin then with many years under Putin now a defacto old-fashioned Czar for life...! Vladimir Putin, the last official head of the former KGB now the FSB. Are there any questions folks...?! :|

The difference between the Ruskies and us is that they are awash to the gunnels in natural resources, both oil and natural gas being the two premier categories.

The U.S. is relatively poor in these two strategic commodities with us being heavily dependent on the Middle East for our supply.

We have a 300 year supply of coal, oil shale along with Canada having the same rich resources in tar sands and oil shale deposits, but our leaders refuse to implement a Manhattan-Project level plan to to put Fischer-Tropsch coal gasification plants on line which produce both a clean burning gas and a perfume-like smelling diesel fuel from coal. The process was invented by two German chemists during WWI later to be used by Hitler for synthfuel production for his WWII war machine.

With the price of easy to extract oil a moonshot this process is more than cost effective in order to tap our world class coal and oil shale reserves. Unfortunately our Congressional leaders and the Executive branch are owned, lock, stock, and barrel by Middle East potentates.

So the modern Russias formerly the Soviet Union have surfaced in good shape while "we the people" are left holding a 10 trillion dollar deficit and with little left in our national bag of tricks to salvage the situation unless we embrace coal using the state of the art conversion technologies.

Rest assured the Ruskies are not going to "give" the U.S. any cold hard cash to help us on to the path to recovery...!

I've both written and contacted my reps many times concerning this issue, but it falls on deaf ears. At this point in history our elected reps are part of the problem and not the solution. Congress is nothing but a version of the old sovietski style politburo; ie., a bunch of overpaid, entrenched apparatchiks...!

Again, Phil, truly a great comparison of the eventual collpase of a nation; ie., the U.S. due to chronic pandering to the needs of an all voracious Military Industrial Complex and their running-dog facilitators in our intelligence services with the complicity and approval of our politburo; ie., Congress...!

Carl Nemo **==

The American people are asleep at the wheel. We have been mesmerized by commercials and rightwing dissimulation. Most people see no connection between driving a gas guzzler to the store to buy factory beef and 4000 dead soldiers in Iraq. Ask the next 20 people you meet how much the national debt is and who we owe it to. If you find one person who knows, give him or her a big kiss and tell them that they are special. Then ask everyone about Britany Spears latest travail, or about steriod use among professional athletes. Be prepared to listen to long, convoluted opinions about how those vital situations should be handled.

The question is, what's to be done about this? Maybe it is going to take an economic or environmental catastrophe to wake enough of us up. I hope I'm wrong.

"The American people are asleep at the wheel."

When it comes to the American Military Complex, they have been since President Eisenhower warned about it over 50 years ago.

Sometimes I think this topic is just over their head. And as a nation we are constantly enmeshed with this love/hate relationship with our military, but that's another thread. Excuse me I digress from the subject.

Phil Hoskins write:

"So there is little incentive for this administration to do more than spit at Congress’s inability to take responsible actions with regard to the economy. Like its disaster in Iraq, the FOG want to push the problem forward to a Democratic President."

....Actually I think that there is a plan afoot by whoever the powers are (and it not Georgie Boy) to decimate the economy/population of the USA. It's a game and we are the pawns. Unfortunately those in power have more experience playing these games than the every-day-Joe does, so we loose.

....There are some great articles and books on psychopaths (those individuals without a conscience) and also on the subject of ponerology (the study of evil). Might want to bring yourself up to speed on those subjects before life becomes more insane.

"Actually I think that there is a plan afoot by whoever the powers are (and it not Georgie Boy) to decimate the economy/population of the USA. It's a game and we are the pawns. "

This is a correct assessment. We are in a class warfare. Whenever a Bush is in the WH, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the middle class shrinks. The problem is it is the middle class that pays all the taxes.

Hold it right there ,and focus..

Al jazeera reports:

Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, has said that Russia will not allow itself to be drawn into what he called a new arms race while saying it is developing more sophisticated weapons.

He also accused Nato and the United States of failing to respond to Moscow's security concerns, in a televised speech on Friday.

"It is already clear that a new arms race is being unleashed in the world," Putin said at a state council meeting of ministers governors and parliament members in Moscow.

Putin said "we must not allow ourselves to be drawn into this" but added Russia will "always respond" to such challenges.

http://english.aljazeera....

Phil Hoskins