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January 27, 2008 - 11:52am.
IF we are to assume Mrs. Clinton becomes the Democratic nominee for President of the United States (something that is still in doubt as I write this), has anyone given any thought about who she might choose as her running mate? Many have suggested that a good choice might be Mr. Obama or Mr. Edwards. However, given the hatred and vitriol that has been spewed in Mr. Obama's direction from the Clinton camp over the past week in South Carolina, I should think a FAR more attractive running mate for Mrs. Clinton might simply be her husband, Bill. After all, if it were not for Bill Clinton, would we even be HAVING a conversation about his wife, Hillary becoming President? The thought of Bill running as Hillary's running mate for Vice President certainly begs the obvious questions: Given the fact that he has already served two terms as President, could she, constitutionally, even have Bill Clinton on the ticket as her Vice Presidential running mate? And, furthermore, what would happen if she (and he) are subsequently elected and she can no longer serve? Now, there are those who will categorically state such a nomination for Vice President absolutely can't happen because Mr. Clinton is constitutionally ineligible from becoming the President again. However, the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution (the one that prohibits a President from serving more than two terms) is actually quite silent on the eligibility criteria (or the number of terms) a VICE President may serve. To wit: --------------------------- "SECTION 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term. ------------------------- The operative word here is "elected". The Amendment is silent whether someone who has been twice elected to the Presidency can subsequently be elected to the Vice Presidency. That is, the 22nd Amendment only states that a person may not be ELECTED to the Presidency more than twice. It does NOT rule out such a person subsequently becoming President by other means (for example through the line of succession). What's more, there are also no restrictions anywhere in the Constitution on the number of terms a person can serve as Vice President - the two term limit only applies to the Presidency. One possible fly in the ointment to such a scheme might be the 12th Amendment to the Constitution. It lays out the eligibility criteria for the President and Vice President by stating that, "No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States." But, here again, the term "constitutionally ineligible" is thought to only be referring to other Presidential eligibility criteria..such as being at least 35 years of age, having been born a citizen of the United States, and having been a resident of the U.S. for at least the 14 years preceding election. The bottom line here is that it appears NEITHER the 12th NOR the 22nd Amendments to our Constitution specifically prohibit a former two-term President from serving as Vice President. On the other hand, up until now, as no two-term President has subsequently sought (or been thinking about seeking) the Vice-Presidency the question has never arisen. And, while it IS a bit of a circular argument, when have such issues gotten in the way of the ("it-all-depends-on-what-the-definition-of-the-word-"is"-is") Clintons? However, regardless of what our Constitution says, in all probability, IF Mrs. Clinton WERE to win the Presidency, (and based on Bill's antics to date) a "co-Presidency" (official or otherwise) with husband Bill is clearly in the offing for our nation. "May you live in interesting times" is an English translation of an old Chinese blessing (or curse as the case may be). It would now appear we are certainly living in such times. However, it is yet to be decided if those times will ultimately prove to be a blessing...or a curse.
Capitol Hill Blue's columnists, blogs and reader comments Capitol Hill Blue is an independent, non-partisan news site that belongs to no political party and subscribes to no political or philosophical point-of-view. Our columnists are welcome to their opinions but readers should understand that their views do not necessarily reflect the editorial policies of this web site. We also welcome comments to selected opinion columns and in our popular ReaderRant discussion forum. Please remember, however, that we believe in civility on this web site and comments may be reviewed, moderated or removed if we feel they contain obscenities, racism, bigotry, anti-Semitic remarks or attack other posters. Our goal is reasoned discussion on issues facing this nation and we do not feel that goal is served by personal attacks and by seeing how many cute adjectives you can attach to an elected official or politician's name. Copyright © 2008 Capitol Hill Blue
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Great idea Keith. Then
Submitted by Sandra Price on January 27, 2008 - 12:52pm.Great idea Keith. Then after the election, Hillary can join Vince Foster in the park as a suicide.
Sandy, I'm certainly NOT
Submitted by keith on January 27, 2008 - 1:05pm.Sandy,
I'm certainly NOT advocating any of this!
I'm simply bringing it up as something the Clinton's might try to pull.
And, I'm and wondering if all those who are now so obsessively supporting Mrs. Clinton's candidacy have given any serious thought to the consequences (good, bad or otherwise) of such a husband-wife President/Vice President "tag team" in the White House.
Keith, your scenario scares
Submitted by Dogma on January 27, 2008 - 1:14pm.Keith, your scenario scares the beegeebees out of me! I had not thought of that possibility and I'm sure many others haven't as well. I don't think it's such a stretch and would fit right in with the co-presidency that is mused about frequently.
I think the whole idea is
Submitted by SEAL on January 27, 2008 - 1:25pm.I think the whole idea is ridiculous and no one, especially the Clintons, would even consider it.
Hate to be a voice of sanity
Submitted by dakine01 on January 27, 2008 - 6:26pm.Hate to be a voice of sanity with this gibberish but there are already two reasons why it is not at all possible.
1. The major criteria for being Vice President is eligibility to be President. By virtue of having been elected President twice, Bill Clinton is no longer eligible to be elected, unless and until the (I believe) 22 Amendment is repealed.
2. The Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates cannot be from the same state. That's why Cheney had to move back to Wyoming from Houston, TX in order to runa as VP with Little Boots.
Please go back and read my
Submitted by keith on January 27, 2008 - 8:36pm.Please go back and read my original post.
I specifically made the point that the 22nd Amendment DOES NOT, in and of itself, prohibit Mr. Clinton from becoming the VICE President. That Amendment ONLY talks about someone being ELECTED (not appointed via succession) to the office of PRESIDENT. It is silent on the criteria needed to be elected VICE President.
And, yes...the Constitution does also prohibit ELECTORS from voting for both a Presidential and Vice Presidential candidate from the same state as themselves. In theory, this might deny a Vice Presidential candidate with the most electoral votes the absolute majority required to secure election, even if the Presidential candidate is elected, and place the Vice Presidential election in the hands of the Senate.
However, in practice, this requirement is easily circumvented by simply having the candidate for Vice President change their state of residency as was done by Dick Cheney in the 200o election. You may recall Mr. Cheney changed his legal residency from Texas to Wyoming (his original home state) in order to run for election as Vice President alongside George W. Bush, who was then the governor (and a resident of) the State of Texas.
Mr. Clinton could easily do likewise.
Actually, Bill has already
Submitted by pondering_it_all on January 27, 2008 - 7:56pm.Actually, Bill has already spoken on this idea during a TV interview. (I believe it was on David Letterman's show.) He acknowledged that some people interpret the 22nd and 12th amendments individually so there would be no explicit prohibition against him serving as VP. But then he very clearly stated that he sees the Constitution as a whole, and interprets the intent as prohibiting his running for VP.
That show was seen by millions of people and could be pulled out of the archive any time, so I think it is pretty safe to say that he will not reverse that statement and try to claim that it should be allowed.
On the other hand, has everybody noticed that Edwards is being pretty careful not to offend either of the front runners? He may well arrive at the convention with enough delegates to make either of them the winner, in exchange for a position in their administration. But I'm thinking he would have more fun as Attorney General than as VP.
Mr. Clinton may well have
Submitted by keith on January 27, 2008 - 8:27pm.Mr. Clinton may well have indicated on TV that he believes the Constitution "as a whole" prohibits him from running for Vice President.
However, and as you may recall, he also once stated (publicly on TV) that he didn't have sexual relations with "that woman" either.
keith, You obviously think
Submitted by dakine01 on January 27, 2008 - 8:59pm.keith,
You obviously think this is feasible and viable. However, I am unaware of any credible constitutional scholars who are making this same claim. Do you have someone that you specifically can cite for this or is this just something that keeps you up at night fearful that it MIGHT happen?
No, once again, I'm NOT
Submitted by keith on January 27, 2008 - 10:29pm.No, once again, I'm NOT advocating any of this!
All I am saying is that, absent any SPECIFIC Constitutional prohibitions (and the Clinton's known track record for bending the rules to get and retain power) the possibility exists that "Slick Willie" and company just MIGHT try to pull something like this off.
Clearly, and by any measure, the Democratic Party of the United States is breaking new ground in this election.
They are fielding the first widely popular African American candidate running for President as well as the first, widely popular female candidate running for President...a lady who also just happens to be the wife of a former two-term President.
What's more, the Democrats are doing all of this in the SAME election cycle!
Why not...?! Bill held
Submitted by Carl Nemo on January 28, 2008 - 2:45am.Why not...?! Bill held office as President and there's nothing in the constitution that would preclude him from being V.P. since the V.P. is chosen by the presidential nominee, which I think is a major flaw in our system of goverment.
Based on behind the scenes meddling on the part of H.W. Bush under Reagan, Gore under Clinton, and Cheney under G.W. Bush, the V.P. selection is something that people have to pay attention to rather closely in these highly dangerous times.
H.W. Bush was "ex-CIA" (no such animal), code name "poppy" was constantly involving himself in the CIA/MIC's constant involvement in foreign affairs. H.W. Bush was deeply involved in Iran/Contra if not "the" planner for the operation. Gore under Clinton thought of himself as an amateur intelligence operative/buff and meddled in the operations of our intel agencies day to day operations. Dick Cheney under G.W. Bush has been notorious for meddling in the ops of our intel organizations including the Wolfowitz-Feith-Cheney rogue intelligence pipeline that involved us in this bogus Iraqi debacle resulting in the loss of almost 4,000 of our servicepeople, along with at least 20,000 casualties with various degrees of disability. Also "innocent" Iraqi citizens have been killed to the tune of at least 100,000 or more with several million having to flee their country to neighboring nations.
So my point is that a ever-meddling, V.P. can be like a loose cannon on deck relative to the safety of the American people. Even if Bill Clinton is simply sitting in the Whitehouse as "first husband"; he will be up to his armpits meddling in our national affairs with the approval of his wife. They work as team and always have so to this nation's detriment.
It's mentioned in other recent site articles that many people equate Bill Clinton with the success of their 401K portfolios etc. during his tenure. The "tech boom" became the "tech wreck" not during Bushco's term per se, but the seeds were sown from the beginning of the Clinton presidency. SEC oversight was minimal. CEO's were cooking the books bigtime on so-called "New Economy" stocks only for people to discover by the time G.W. Bush ascended to the presidencey that they had been left holding the bag. Enron, MCI-Worldcom, Tyco, Qwest, Sunbeam, and the list goes on of companies that went down hard because of their criminal CEO's all under the less than watchful eye of the Clinton presidency regulators. Those campaign contributions shor were mighty fine...no?! :|
Then with the assistance of the Fed lowering rates to 40 year lows post tech wreck; it was now G.W. Bush's turn to watch the banking industry load their boats to the gunnels with ill-gotten cash due to weak and less-than discriminating oversight concerning lending practices etc. on the part of regulators that were imbedded during the Clinton era then continuing on into the G.W. Bush presidency.
We are now suffering the maximum damage as a function of the crash in the housing market courtesy of Bushco's lack of oversight in order to protect the people from predators. These people are laissez' faire "pirate capitalists", an ugly mutant form of that which could be good; ie., capitalism with reasonable regulation and genuine oversight.
So between Bill Clinton and G.W. Bush, the American people have suffered a mighty one-two punch, and if Hillary is elected she'll finish this nation off with a roundhouse punch to the jaw. I will not prognosticate as to what that might be, but I'm sure many of us can let our imaginations run amok concerning her NWO controllers' plans for "we the people"...!
Wake up America to the fact you've been duped by 20 years of Bush/Clinton shenanigans and boondoggles, starting with H.W. Bush to what they hope to be a Hillary Clinton/? presidency too...!
Carl Nemo **==
First of all, HRC must get
Submitted by Flapsaddle on January 28, 2008 - 2:05pm.First of all, HRC must get the nomination - and that is no longer quite the pro forma thing that she and her votaries had previously envisioned, is it?
Second, she'd have to propose her husband as the VP nominee - and assume that the nominating convention would rubber stamp her choice. Sure, the presidential nominee's choice is normally vetted in the traditional smoke-filled room, but do you think that such a thing could make it to the floor, much less be passed? After all, JFK nominating his brother as AG was a loophole amended soon after the departure of the Camelot crowd.
Third, assuming that the Democratic Party would acquiesce to such a transparent power-grab, the immediate legal challenges would make the Bush v. Gore dust-up of 2000 look like a kindergarten party.
Fourth, all of the previous flaming hoops having been cleared successfully, the American electorate - which has a well-established reputation for being willing to buy any old pig in a poke - will be asked to acquiesce to buying two already-shopworn pigs in a poke, with one or both of the Clintons saying something soothing like, "it's not for us...it's for the children!"
Most sincerely,
T. J. Flapsaddle
Who in hell would accept
Submitted by almandine on January 29, 2008 - 9:22pm.Who in hell would accept it?
For the record... the 12th amendment is silent on these matters. Article 2, section 1, of the constitution sets forth the age criterion, etc., for Pres. Also, since the president is not ELIGIBLE to be elected, I believe he is not eligible to become V.P. either.
Hi almandine... Well thought
Submitted by Carl Nemo on February 6, 2008 - 3:08pm.Hi almandine...
Well thought commentary, but I see this issue marked for express delivery to the "Supremes", the ultimate arbiters and specialists in traitorous compromise...no?!
Carl Nemo **==
Yep... Carl, no doubt about
Submitted by almandine on January 30, 2008 - 6:22pm.Yep... Carl, no doubt about it. That's why I claim it as mere belief. Here's hoping we never have to wade into such a dogfight.
There was actually an
Submitted by Bob Loblaw on February 6, 2008 - 11:21am.There was actually an article about this topic in the Washington Post that was run shortly before Hillary announced her candidacy:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic...
Hi Bob Loblaw... Thanks for
Submitted by Carl Nemo on February 6, 2008 - 9:23pm.Hi Bob Loblaw...
Thanks for the link which gives rise to an even more important issue concerning Bill Clinton; ie., is he a convicted felon?
He was disbarred as function of his failure to testify and testify truthfully in the Paula Jones case.
“District Judge Susan Webber Wright found President Bill Clinton in civil contempt of court Monday for his “willful failure” to obey her repeated orders to testify truthfully in the Paula Jones sexual harassment lawsuit.”
He lost his license to practice law as a function of this ruling in addition to a $90,000 fine. Supposedly having been found guilty of contempt of court proceeding is not a felony. Maybe so, but it doesn't bode well for the them to come up with the idea for Bill to be her V.P. He's got a track record as being a chronic, now convicted liar, similar to George W. Bush's behavior while in office, although no charges or convictions have been levied against Bush. So for them to choose Bill as V.P., then for the electorate to climb onboard with this idea of having these two in the Whitehouse on a full roll basis is mind-boggling to say the least.
http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/08/30/is-bi...
As of now it seems that Hillary will get the nomination due to ultimate super delegate skulduggery, we'll end up with the nightmarish NWO/MIC/AIPAC enfranchised ticket of Hillary Clinton/? vs. John McCain/? truly scary indeed. If the race between she and Obama turns out to be by a nose, then the super delegate power brokers are beholding to no one other than their behind closed doors agenda and summary decision as to who gets the nomination. They may throw a bone to Obama allowing him to run with her as V.P.
We're flat, dead broke, as a nation so we'll have either spendthrifts; ie., Hillary & Co. vs. "Mad" John McPain; ie., Mr."we're gunna be in Iraq for a 100 years", both of them "republicrats" marching to the jody calls of their shadowy corporate masters, summarily finishing off the United States of America...! :|
Carl Nemo **==