You make us out to be all too human Doug.
Thanks for a good old kick in the pants.

I got into it with my son-in-law yesterday. A wonderful guy who loves his family, works hard, and comes from a long line of republicans. He faithfully repeated the republican talking points as were fed to him from Rush, who he listens to while working in the fields - or doing what ever else he is doing on the farm.

Then I went to an Obama listening meeting last evening. I was impressed that the people there (approx. 50 which was 2 1/2 the number expected) were thinking and talking about the real issues facing our country. I tried to tell the organizers there that they are loosing the attention of the media - and of the American public to Palin and the republican hype. I told them they need to be tough in this election, but they felt that taking the high road was the best way. It is in a perfect world, but not when you are dealing with Rove.

I love my son-in-law, and his family is great, too. As long as we leave politics out of the converstaion, we all get along, and have very similar views on a lot of things. We are not all that different. But, when you bring up politics the fur starts flying and the converstaions get heated. This is what the division in this country has done to We the People. This division will not be overcome while the two political parties and Fox/et el are spewing their hate filled dialog over the airways.

Somehow, we have lost our way and our citizenship in this country - becoming democrats, republicans, or independants. Perhaps We the People no longer exist, perhaps the Constitution is only a god-damned piece of paper. I sure hope not, though. I'm not ready to give up on what our founding fathers, in their infinite wisdom, created for us.

If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything.
Mark Twain

Doug, at least part of the problem you so eloquently note is tied directly to the fact that our elections now take too damn long and cost too damn much.

Elections in the USA today have now become an "electoral-industrial-complex" to rival our already horrifically entrenched "military-industrial-complex" (not to mention our ever-expanding "terrorist-industrial-complex"!)

Frankly, what do any of us know now that is fundamentally different than what we already knew three years ago about what each party's slate of candidates stood for? What we've gotten since then is simply the same pablum...its just in different packaging.

Sadly, by the time our elections finally roll around, we voters are so totally exhausted from enduring all the mind-numbing telephone polling, TV ads and other assorted media-hyped electoral BS that most of us are simply glad it's finally OVER!

And, has anyone else noted how our now all-but-perpetual election campaigns have turned us into the laughingstock of the rest of the world?

By contrast, just yesterday (Sunday) our friends to the north in Canada called a national election and set date for October 15th. However, after just a month or so of enduring their own form of mindless political attack ads, Canadians will go to the polls, elect their new Parliament, and then everyone will go back to work.

Gee, what a concept...a national election conducted and OVER in a little more than a month rather than the seemingly PERPETUAL campaign circus we Americans must now {painfully!) endure!

"...MSNBC on the left..."

Are you serious? MSNBC is on the left? Come on now, you can't actually believe that. MSNBC is the epitome of corporate media, owned by the huge defense contractor making millions of their war against Iraq.

I admit that MSNBC is slightly to the left of extreme right wing Fox News, but their goal is still to shrill for their corporate masters. How anyone could consider them "left" is beyond me.

Jonathan Inskeep
Crofton, MD USA

Thanks Doug for so eloquently stating what I have been feeling for some time. Of the people, by the people, for the people works for a group of like minded people that have a national identity. America has become so diverse that it has no identity. To try to please everyone is to please no one. America has more factions than Iraq and for the gun lobbyists to arm those factions is a formula for disaster. The question is how do we get back to e pluribus unum, from many one.

Janice , I had a similar experance last week with my partner at work , she's married to a republican and much of her family are republicans , but she has always been a democrat . She asked me what I thought of Palin , I told her I thought she was awful . She told me she likes her , that some cousin of hers who lived in Alaska who was a life long democrat had told her how great she was and that she ( the cousin ) was going to vote for her . We then got into a discussion of the subject in which she told me that , if Obama is elected he will increase the deficit , there will be race riots and on and on . She was a veritable fountain of right wing talking points , she had been a Hillary supporter . I was absolutely dumbfounded by this sudden conversion and the way she was swallowing this crap hook line and sinker . I have another friend at work that has been railing on about Obama being a muslim , having some kind of secret muslim agenda among other mindbendingly inane nonsense . He got it from the book " Obama nation " which he heard discussed on the " Alex Jones " radio program . I tried to explain that that book had been throughly debunked and many of the sources had even recanted , but were used anyway . I asked him to fact check his sources , I just get a blank look , I might as well talk to the wall . I am encountering this kind of thing more and more . I believe that a lot of it is simple racism . Some whites are just using any justification not to vote for Obama while not wanting to admit their real reason . The republicans understand this oh to well and are throwing this stuff out by the bucketfull for those so inclined to cling to , and it seems to be working .

Jim C, you might be better off talking to a wall. What you have discovered is classic authoritarian follower(AF) behavior. AFs will believe whatever their designated/chosen Authoritarian leaders(AL) tell them. If it is a direct contradiction from something that the AL said yesterday, fine. The AF can absorb the new viewpoint and remove the old from his memory as if it had never happened. This is unfortunately a trend that I see continuing in the US over the next 20-50 years. The rise of Authoritarianism in the US has been slowly increasing over the last 40 years but it is starting to become pervasive. Within the next 20-30 years I believe that Authoritarianism will become dominant within the US. The New American Century Neocons-NACN-oligarchs who consist of the following groups; Big Energy, Big Arms, Big Media and Big Jesus, will continue to exploit this group-many of whom are the "low information voter" or sheeple-along with the rest of the sheeple who comprise about 50% of the american electorate. Doug was correct, but he did not go deep enough. The NACN is determined to elect McCain as president, while they understand that revulsion at the republicians currently in congress and at the sudden and massive change that bush brought with him will mean some revision in their ideas and the dems taking more control of congress, their long term goal is nothing less than to get a president who will retain all of bushs powers and will work to increase them. Making congress into a rubber stanp for whatever the president wants to do. People resist change, the NACN attempted to do to much with Bush so we get the backlash.But the trend will continue. More power to the president until he becomes an elected dictator. The next step would be to rescind the bill of rights and install a state religion. Then the president would also be the head of the state church. I believe that within 50 years we will become a theocratic oligarchy. Authoritarianism + militarism+ religious orthodoxy=a theocratic military dictatorship. We are fast becoming the most ignorant group of people on the planet because of the corporate censorship of the MSM. Yes Yes, I know. The internet is still free from censorship, however there are still about 50% or more who still have nothing to do with computers. But there is still the net neutrality bill out there somewhere. When the internet is harnessed by the Service Providers they will be the ones who will decide what everyone sees and hears. I am 58 years old and I have watched over the years as we have changed as a people in how we no longer protest the actions of our govt even when it breaks both the law and the constitution. In how the govt controls how people travel thru the 'terrorist watch list' and Homeland Defense. Travel gets restricted, passports are needed to travel to countries where none was needed. Soon checkpoints will go up and ID's will be checked for travel between states. Then everyone will need passports to travel outside their states.(all in the name of preventing terrorism of course) A police state will rise up-you saw the begining at St. Paul-and no mention will be made by our MSM. We have become the ultimate consumer society, we are easily distracted by shiny objects and new TV's. Other countries are surging ahead of us in every way from infastructure to health care to political freedoms, meanwhile we endlessly debate evolution vs creationism. So we fall further behind other countries in science and computer tech and start the long slow slide into oblivion. But fear not, our military remains #1. at least in spending, as we are currently outspending the entire rest of the world combined. A professional military which has become suborned by the oligarchs and now does their bidding. Oil was behind our invasion of Iraq and Afghanstan.Big Energy almost won when they attempted an end run to regain their ownership of the Iraq oil fields. They failed when Iraq signed over the oil fields to China. The plan, to milk the golden calf that is the US, continues apace. I do not believe that there is any possibility at this time of stopping them. In the near term they will control both major political parties so it will not matter who we elect as both sides work for the same people.

Thank you timr. How refreshing it is to hear from someone that gets it. The average fat ass American is so dumb that he not only believes but can't wait to run out to buy what he saw on the latest TV commercial. Maybe if we ran an add for suicide it would improve the gene pool. Oh yeah, the Muslims have already thought of that. Here we just join the military.

Another good one Doug, for all it's worth. It's good to see that you had the mind to add Freedom to the list of items not being discussed in this campaign.

"A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives." - Sam Adams

Sam Adams was right, we have both a Farce and a Tragedy.

Timr , I am 58 also , it seems we have the same generational perspective . You are correct in your assessment , I believe this started during reagans administration by allowing the networks to move the news from a required public service to profit driven entertainment . The dumbing down of the public and control of the disbursement of information by a few very conservative corporations is the result . What the public in general does not realize is that the real goal of conservatism is nothing but a kind of calvinistic plutocracy . This is nothing more than the aristocrats trying to restore what they believe is the natural order of things , a small ruling aristocracy who cortrol the wealth and resources with everybody else serfs that serve them as labor and cannon fodder . To this mindset the very idea of a middleclass that can tell their betters how they wish to be treated and that share in the wealth is an abomination that must be corrected . To accomplish this , they need to limit education , access to information , convince their would be serfs that what is in the wealthy's interest is also in their interest and distract from the reality of what their real aims are , we might not go for it otherwise . The historical tools are religon , nationalism , brute force , fear of those who are different and keeping the peasants uneducated with as little free time as possible . Just look back through history , a hundred years ago , 2 , 3 , 4, 5 hundred , a thousand years ago and see how it worked and if these " conservatives " don't seem much like the land barons , fiefdoms and robberbarons of old , nothings changed , our selfanointed superiors are simply working to regain their place . and put us back in ours . If Elizabeth Bathory and the black prince were alive today they would no doubt have been at the republican convention waving flags and cheering them on , they are their modern brethren .

Wow, Jim C gets it too. That makes four people that get it. Are we on a roll here or what?

Concur with JimC, Timr and Strat.

There is nothing other than an ongoing class war in this country. The latest example is the "government" (TAXPAYERS) bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, both of which have made record profits for their stockholders over the past few years through fraudulent real estate lending and bundling and reselling the loans. Now the bubble pops and it is up to the taxpayers to bear the losses and NOT the stockholders because FM & FM are "too big to fail". Presumably the stockholders bear great risk in anticipation of great reward. Who holds stock in these concerns? VERY FEW middle class and poorer people, but certainly the very wealthy individuals and institutions who also control the government, the very same people who have declared that the taxpayers must bear the losses. Its class war, nothing more, nothing less. And we are losing.

-- Kent Shaw, age 58

So what's new? Everything Doug has said is absolutely true. And it's depressing and discouraging and humiliating. What it isn't is new news. American politics has been more about personality and spin than substance and truth for as long as we Americans have been voting, with very rare exceptions.

FM & FM. They never should have been created in the first place. There is no way that providing mortgages is the government's job. FM & FM were created with an implied government backing. Thus they were perceived to be guaranteed return for fat cat investors, with any risk implicitly assumed by the taxpayers. Bad idea.

But hold on a second. Who was it who wanted FM & FM? Fannie Mae was created in 1938 as part of Franklin Roosevelt's 'New Deal'. Ladies and Gentlemen, it's a purely Democrat creation. The idea was to have big brother provide the backing so that the little folks could afford homes and mortgages.

-Warren, age 57

Allowing lower and middle class to buy their own homes was a good idea but they should have been forced to keep the payments up without a bail out from the government. Had the congress kept their eyes open when the value of the America dollar was falling along with the jobs kept at home, it would have worked.

America is in a recession that could possibly destroy the building of more homes and businesses. A lazy congress has destroyed the base of our nation's economy.

Our elections are won by candidates who promise tax breaks and hand outs that eventually bring about exactly what we see happening today. We have no candidates who understand supply and demand with the possible exception of Ron Paul. Had we held the congress's feet to the fire on controlled spending, we would be in much better shape.

Instead, we vote for moral values without a look back at our economics. The Republican Party failed to warn us about this borrowing money from nations who are not our friends and all they have offered is the legislation of sins through the Supreme Court. The Democrats have not offered any corrections except more government controls.

The America that votes on Nov 4th is also a country that says it separates church and state, yet those running for office nevertheless seem very keen on advertising their religious credentials - and the more rabidly radical they are the better.

It is a country that espouses freedom of speech yet rounds up hundreds of protesters and arrests them on trumped up 'terrorism' charges, while invading their homes and stealing their property.

It is a country that says it is a democracy, yet this system is not enshrined in law anywhere within it's legal or political framework. And votes are stolen or wiped out, while thousands of voters are expunged from lists for spurious reasons, with no legal redress.

It is a country that prides itself on it's press and news organisations, yet these are all in the hands of just a small number of politically motivated people, whose only interests are to control what people hear and see and to subvert news to the level of propaganda.

It is a country that has spent close to three trillion dollars on a pointless war that has killed many thousands of innocent people - and then wonders why it is despised by so many.

And because of the horror stories regarding the unwelcoming face presented by the TSA and Homeland Security from innocent people merely trying to visit your once great country - or even just transit through it on the way to soomewhere else - it is not a place I will be visiting any time soon.

Legislation of virtue is impossible. Whether it is fiscal responsibility, or virtue in the bedroom it doesn't work. Goes double when you consider that in, I believe, 2003, HUD had off balance losses of $59 Billion. They simply could not find the money. However, those favored few at the top of the food chain, acquired some amazing salaries and bonuses.

Our present government is run like a cabal, feeding those they favor, starving the rest. Those being fed are eating very well indeed.

One small consolation is that when you review the establishment of Prohibition, they at least realized then that legislating virtue regarding demon rum, required at minimum a Constitutional Amendment.

These days, all it takes is a kleptocracy bedecked in flag pins, proudly waving the red, white and blue, with disdain for all that don't agree with every bit of Theocratic intrusiveness they believe others must endure, while their own personal lives are more Peyton Place than Scruple Street. Lillibet

May I address a couple of assertians made in two of the above posts . 1st. the shareholders in both freddie mac and fannie may are getting killed . both have dropped as of monday to the status of penny stocks , practically worthless . The only entities that will come out of this smelling like a rose are the very top of their management team , the CEO ,COO CFO etc , they're just fine , salery , bonus's , severance package and retirement , all in tack and huge . They simply packed up and slithered out the door unscathed as usual .
2nd. Both companys are private , that is the problem , they were slowly privatized until they no longer had to comply with the oversite , regulations and sound fiscal practices that would have been required if backed by the FED as are banks and other such federally ( FDIC ) backed institutions . That is at the core of this whole morgage based meltdown . These institutions ( morgage based lenders ) , Country wide , Bear sterns , yep , that was their downfall too etc . They were allowed by years or deregulation to avoid sound fiscal practices and participate in fast buck scheme after fast buck scheme untill the whole thing finally collapsed . The guys who are actually responsible for this mess made out like bandits ( which is exactly what they are ) . They are the ones who promoted and bundled gobs of shaky and ill advised morgages and sold them to these essentually deregulated institutions who didn't bother to check how weak or nonexistant the financial backing was behind those instriments . The fact is , the individuals who caused this are going to be untouched and allowed to keep their vast profits from this disasterous scheme . Its the shareholders and taxpayers who will be hammered and will take the financial hit . If congress would simply pass legislation that would allow confiscation of profits and prosecution of the originators of these schemes that would be a good start and a deterrent . And for god sake reregulate the bastards .